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Re: Fwd: LIT e-mail discussion group

Kevin To Kelly

Note, I'm using a different letter than the I'm replying to, because 
there are some new people on the cc list.


Kelly, you keep trying to compare apples to organges when you talk about 
repair vs. buying new.  On the Repair side, you have materials, labor, 
expertise, and energy.  You then try to say that these are much higher 
than buying new, otherwise groups on earth would be doing this right now.
by saying this, you are comparing the cost of manufacturing a single 
specific high-tech gizmo with the cost of manufacturing a million 
specific high-tech gizmo's.  That's not the same thing at all.

Of course buying something new is cheaper,  the economies of scale make 
sure of it.  but in a limited system, repair would be balanced by the 
transport wieght of the spare.  if it weighs 1 Kg, then it's going to 
take a whole lot of energy to boost it up to cruising speed (I still say 
C is possible, and I intend to prove it) and back down again.  This is 
the cost which must be balanced against the cost of repairing an object.  
Some spares should be brought, and other things should be designed for 
easy repair.  

as for the amish.  I say if there is trouble with the amish in your area, 
it is probably modern society which is in the wrong.  There is a large 
Amish community near my hometown (Viroqua WI which I'm sure nobody ever 
heard of) and I have always found them to be peaceful people who only 
wish to be left alone.  If modern society is encroaching, then it is not 
the amish's fault.  Anyway, this is not the place for this discussion, my 

My point about the amish, is that by sticking to a particular point in 
developement (whether that point is 1840's, 1900's, 1940' or 2000's 
doesn't matter) one can significantly reduce the amount of "effort" 
needed to keep the society going.  Add to that the fact that much of 
earth-bound technology is _deliberately_ inefficient, and I think we can 
get much better than a ten or one hundred fold reduction in personal.  I 
think we could get that, just by standardizing the equipment, and 
roboticizing much of the routine jobs.

I take execption with your statement that we can't endlessly recycle, the 
limits on recycling are not material, there are energy.  Lint can be 
re-woven into socks, if you are willing to totally break down the plastic 
fibers and re-form them.  Rust can be turned back into iron, you just 
need some electricity.

I also think your warehouse vs farm numbers are off, as in your farm 
estimates, you are assumeing some kind of soil, and not taking into 
account hydroponics.  without the soil, the weight goes down drastically, 
since the water can be re-cycled endlessly.

Kevin in the frozen North