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Re: Re: RE: starship-design: scoops and sails and something to push against

> From: KellySt@aol.com
> In a message dated 10/9/98 10:06:44 AM, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl wrote:
> >> From: KellySt@aol.com
> >> 
> >[...]
> >> These would not actual support real colonies. They would just do government
> >> suported base station. Thats about as close to a space faring civilization 
> >> as our Antarctica bases are to antarctic colonization or the late 
> >> seabottom bases to ocean colonization.
> >> 
> >Possibly, but you must start from something.
> >Starting with a base station seems quite reasonable to me.
> But its not a start.  Its a conclusion to something very different.  Like
> Apollo wasn't the star of Maned use of space.
So what would you consider a start? 
Building a viable starship from scratch?

> >> >Yes, and it should also settle my perennial quarrel with Kelly
> >> >re one-way missions: by definition, most of these missions will 
> >> >be one-way...
> >> 
> >> Not likely. ;)  
> >>
> >Not likely what?
> That it will settle our perennial quarrel.
So I suspected. You are sinking my last hopes... ;-)

> >> You idea was a suicide exploration mission. Send out a team
> >> and abondon them there to die.
> >> 
> >That is foul [socialist, capitalist, anyother] propaganda!
> >My idea was QUITE different. I often wondered why you seem not
> >to understand that!
> >Geez, should we start the quarrel again?  ;-))
> Those were your cryteria, you just don't consider it the same if you give 
> them the suplies to die of old age in the abonded ship/base/whatever 
> after the missions over.  ;)
I thing you should use the criteria of those who are willing
to go for such a mission. If they want to go, it means the mission
meets the acceptability criteria. 

> >> Further, if people want to propose reasons for interstellar colonization
> >> missions, they'll have to have reasons and patterns that haven't failed 
> >> on Earthly colonization projects.
> >> 
> >Or quite new reasons that may turn up in a quite different,
> >interplanetary-space society.
> Interplanetary societies of humans are unlikly to find any fudemental 
> new laws of society, culter, psycology, or economics.
Laying aside the question of finding new laws (it has been
already discussed by others on the list), my main point was
that that "quite different interplanetary-space society"
will have different needs, technological means, and attitudes
toward space and space exploration that today's Earth-bound
(or even Earth-bend...) people. And these will be very different
than in the times of "Earthly colonization projects" - 
hence, they are likely to have also different attitudes toward 
interstellar missions and different reasons to undertake them.

That is not the question of "new laws".
Simply, if you have, say, an airliner handy, you may consider
a fast trip to Paris to see the latest fashion show quite
reasonable - very differently if you have had only a "Santa Maria",
like in the old days of Earthly colonization projects.
Not speaking about the fact that in those times 
there even were no fashion shows in Paris...

-- Zenon