From VM Tue Apr 2 15:25:54 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["7399" "Tuesday" "2" "April" "2002" "16:44:02" "-0600" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "153" "starship-design: Nanotech Might Cut Solarcell Costs" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 7399 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g32MisjG000321 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g32Mis8t000320 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@traffic.gnt.net [204.49.53.6]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g32MiljG000258 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:44:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadsword (user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net [64.45.208.121]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA27946 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:44:27 -0600 Message-ID: <004a01c1da97$e3f9f290$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1DA65.995F8290" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Nanotech Might Cut Solarcell Costs Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:44:02 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1DA65.995F8290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nanotech Might Cut Solarcell Costs Berkeley - Apr 1, 2002 University of California, Berkeley, chemists have found a way to make cheap plastic solar cells flexible enough to paint onto any surface and potentially able to provide electricity for wearable electronics or other low-power devices. The group's first crude solar cells have achieved efficiencies of 1.7 percent, far less than the 10 percent efficiencies of today's standard commercial photovoltaics. The best solar cells, which are very expensive semiconductor laminates, convert, at most, 35 percent of the sun's energy into electricity. "Our efficiency is not good enough yet by about a factor of 10, but this technology has the potential to do a lot better," said A. Paul Alivisatos, professor of chemistry at UC Berkeley and a member of the Materials Science Division of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. "There is a pretty clear path for us to take to make this perform much better." Alivisatos and his co-authors, graduate student Wendy U. Huynh and post-doctoral fellow Janke J. Dittmer, report their development in the March 29 issue of Science. "The beauty of this is that you could put solar cells directly on plastic, which has unlimited flexibility," Dittmer said. "This opens up all sorts of new applications, like putting solar cells on clothing to power LEDs, radios or small computer processors." The solar cell they have created is actually a hybrid, comprised of tiny nanorods dispersed in an organic polymer or plastic. A layer only 200 nanometers thick is sandwiched between electrodes, and can produce, at present, about 0.7 volts. The electrode layers and nanorod/polymer layers could be applied in separate coats, making production fairly easy. And unlike today's semiconductor-based photovoltaic devices, plastic solar cells can be manufactured in solution in a beaker without the need for clean rooms or vacuum chambers. "Today's high-efficiency solar cells require very sophisticated processing inside a clean room and complex engineering to make the semiconductor sandwiches," Alivisatos said. "And because they are baked inside a vacuum chamber, they have to be made relatively small." The team's process for making hybrid plastic solar cells involves none of this. "We use a much dirtier process that makes it cheap," Huynh said. The technology takes advantage of recent advances in nanotechnology, specifically the production of nanocrystals and nanorods pioneered by Alivisatos and his laboratory colleagues. These are chemically pure clusters of from 100 to 100,000 atoms with dimensions on the order of a nanometer, or a billionth of a meter. Because of their small size, they exhibit unusual and interesting properties governed by quantum mechanics, such as the absorption of different colors of light depending upon their size. It was only two years ago that a UC Berkeley team led by Alivisatos found a way to make nanorods of a reliable size out of cadmium selenide, a semiconducting material. Conventional semiconductor solar cells are made of polycrystalline silicon or, in the case of the highest efficiency ones, crystalline gallium arsenide. Huynh and Dittmer manufactured nanorods in a beaker containing cadmium selenide, aiming for rods of a diameter - 7 nanometers - to absorb as much sunlight as possible. They also aimed for nanorods as long as possible - in this case, 60 nanometers. They then mixed the nanorods with a plastic semiconductor, called P3HT - poly-(3-hexylthiophene) - and coated a transparent electrode with the mixture. The thickness, 200 nanometers - a thousandth the thickness of a human hair - is a factor of 10 less than the micron-thickness of semiconductor solar cells. An aluminum coating acting as the back electrode completed the device. The nanorods act like wires. When they absorb light of a specific wavelength, they generate an electron plus an electron hole - a vacancy in the crystal that moves around just like an electron. The electron travels the length of the rod until it is collected by the aluminum electrode. The hole is transferred to the plastic, which is known as a hole-carrier, and conveyed to the electrode, creating a current. P3HT and similar plastic semiconductors currently are a hot area of research in solar cell technology, but by themselves these plastics are lucky to achieve light-conversion efficiencies of several percent. "All solar cells using plastic semiconductors have been stuck at two percent efficiency, but we have that much at the beginning of our research," Huynh said. "I think we can do so much better than plastic electronics." "The advantage of hybrid materials consisting of inorganic semiconductors and organic polymers is that potentially you get the best of both worlds," Dittmer added. "Inorganic semiconductors offer excellent, well-established electronic properties and they are very well suited as solar cell materials. Polymers offer the advantage of solution processing at room temperature, which is cheaper and allows for using fully flexible substrates, such as plastics." Visiting scientist Keith Barnham, professor of physics at Imperial College, London, and an expert on high-efficiency solar cells, agreed. "This is exciting, cheap technology if they can get the efficiency up to 10 percent, which I think they will, in time," Barnham said. "Paul's approach is a very promising way to get around the problem of the efficiency of plastic solar cells." Some of the obvious improvements include better light collection and concentration, which already are employed in commercial solar cells. But Alivisatos and his colleagues hope to make significant improvements in the plastic/nanorod mix, too, ideally packing the nanorods closer together, perpendicular to the electrodes, using minimal polymer, or even none - the nanorods would transfer their electrons more directly to the electrode. In their first-generation solar cells, the nanorods are jumbled up in the polymer, leading to losses of current via electron-hole recombination and thus lower efficiency. They also hope to tune the nanorods to absorb different colors to span the spectrum of sunlight. An eventual solar cell might have three layers, each made of nanorods that absorb at different wavelengths. "For this to really find widespread use, we will have to get up to around 10 percent efficiency," Alivisatos said. "But we think it's very doable." ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1DA65.995F8290 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="SandCastle Contractors, Inc. Parker, L. Clayton (E-mail).vcf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="SandCastle Contractors, Inc. Parker, L. Clayton (E-mail).vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Parker;L. FN:L. Clayton Parker (E-mail) ORG:SandCastle Contractors, Inc. TEL;WORK;VOICE:(850) 650-6588 TEL;HOME;VOICE:(850) 654-4773 TEL;CELL;VOICE:(850) 585-5502 TEL;CAR;VOICE:(850) 585-5504 TEL;WORK;FAX:(850) 650-6588 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 1762;Destin;FL;32540-1762 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 1762=3D0D=3D0ADestin, FL = 32540-1762 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:lparker@cacaphony.net REV:20011020T212607Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C1DA65.995F8290-- From VM Mon Apr 8 10:08:37 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["3008" "Thursday" "4" "April" "2002" "18:02:57" "-0800" "jakesmiley" "jakesmiley@netzero.net" nil "48" "starship-design: Of interest." "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 3008 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g36KuT0n001476 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g36KuTw6001475 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (rly-ip01.mx.aol.com [205.188.156.49]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g36KuR0n001436 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from logs-wp.proxy.aol.com (logs-wp.proxy.aol.com [205.188.201.135]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA22200 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:56:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from scottlt (AC894EA2.ipt.aol.com [172.137.78.162]) by logs-wp.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g36Krs3154633 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:53:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000001c1ddad$2fa7eea0$0501a8c0@scottlt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Apparently-From: ScottPIC@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "jakesmiley" From: "jakesmiley" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design" Subject: starship-design: Of interest. Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:02:57 -0800 Hello... What follows is an article taken from the February 23rd issue of The Economist. (I should clean my closet more often.) How many people are needed in a spaceship? Regular readers will know that The Economist's answer to this question is: "none; space exploration is better done by robots". But this is true only if scientific information is the goal. If the aim is colonisation, then both men and women are necessary. In a session on interstellar travel at the AAAS festival in Boston, John Moore of the University of Florida, Gainesville, asked what human population would be necessary for a colonising mission to another solar system. It would be a long trip. Several bright physicists have spent their leisure hours designing propulsion systems that could send a craft to a nearby star in less than a human lifetime. One popular solution is to unfurl a light sail that would capture the energy beamed at it from a powerful laser in orbit around the sun. The problem is that deceleration at the other end takes so much time and energy that such a system is suitable only for 'fly-by' missions. A manned craft would take centuries to arrive, and would therefore require some sort of self-contained colony in which people could survive, reproduce and lead something approaching normal lives [I don't know if we could put that many politicians and criminals on board...]. The technical, ecological and financial problems of building such a colony ship would be enormous, of course. But even if they were overcome, the society inside would itself have to be viable [that was a _long_ segue!]. Dr. Moore, an anthropologist, set himself the task of designing such a society. He saw the crux of it as a compact between the generations to produce an acceptable crop of spouses for the future. By 'acceptable' he meant sufficient in number (a minimum choice of ten suitable members of the opposite sex) [ten! no wonder I haven't found a mate yet], and of suitable age (within three years of the individual doing the choosing) and consanguinity (not closer than second cousins). A computer model of his devising ["devising"? what, a model isn't accurate unless someone else had the chance to screw it up?] showed that an initial group of 150-180 people was just big enough to fulfill these criteria. Even when the model was run for 60-80 generations -- equivalent to a journey time of 2,000 years -- the compact could hold. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) the figure of 150-180 is the number of people which psychological testing has shown that an individual can know well enough to have a permanent relationship with. It is also the maximum size that anthropologists find for clans of hunter-gatherers, villages in pre-industrial societies, and even infantry companies in armies. Dr. Moore's woolgathering [I resent that! "vital contribution"...] might therefore have illuminated an important aspect of humanity's past, as well as pointing to its possible future. From VM Mon Apr 8 10:08:37 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["8608" "Saturday" "6" "April" "2002" "20:29:47" "EST" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "206" "Fwd: starship-design: Of interest." "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 8608 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g371Tw0n006489 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g371TwG3006488 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g371Tu0n006472 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.d5.1596e149 (4188) for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:29:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_d5.1596e149.29e0fb0b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 39 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Fwd: starship-design: Of interest. Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:29:47 EST --part1_d5.1596e149.29e0fb0b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/6/02 2:57:07 PM, jakesmiley@netzero.net writes: >Hello... > > > > What follows is an article taken from the February 23rd issue of The > >Economist. (I should clean my closet more often.) > > > > > > How many people are needed in a spaceship? Regular readers will know > >that The Economist's answer to this question is: "none; space exploration >is > >better done by robots". But this is true only if scientific information >is > >the goal. If the aim is colonisation, then both men and women are > >necessary. > > In a session on interstellar travel at the AAAS festival in Boston, >John > >Moore of the University of Florida, Gainesville, asked what human population > >would be necessary for a colonising mission to another solar system. > > It would be a long trip. Several bright physicists have spent their > >leisure hours designing propulsion systems that could send a craft to a > >nearby star in less than a human lifetime. One popular solution is to > >unfurl a light sail that would capture the energy beamed at it from a > >powerful laser in orbit around the sun. The problem is that deceleration >at > >the other end takes so much time and energy that such a system is suitable > >only for 'fly-by' missions. A manned craft would take centuries to arrive, > >and would therefore require some sort of self-contained colony in which > >people could survive, reproduce and lead something approaching normal lives > >[I don't know if we could put that many politicians and criminals on > >board...]. The technical, ecological and financial problems of building > >such a colony ship would be enormous, of course. But even if they were > >overcome, the society inside would itself have to be viable [that was a > >_long_ segue!]. > > Dr. Moore, an anthropologist, set himself the task of designing such >a > >society. He saw the crux of it as a compact between the generations to > >produce an acceptable crop of spouses for the future. By 'acceptable' >he > >meant sufficient in number (a minimum choice of ten suitable members of >the > >opposite sex) [ten! no wonder I haven't found a mate yet], and of suitable > >age (within three years of the individual doing the choosing) and > >consanguinity (not closer than second cousins). A computer model of his > >devising ["devising"? what, a model isn't accurate unless someone else >had > >the chance to screw it up?] showed that an initial group of 150-180 people > >was just big enough to fulfill these criteria. Even when the model was >run > >for 60-80 generations -- equivalent to a journey time of 2,000 years -- >the > >compact could hold. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) the figure of 150-180 > >is the number of people which psychological testing has shown that an > >individual can know well enough to have a permanent relationship with. > It > >is also the maximum size that anthropologists find for clans of > >hunter-gatherers, villages in pre-industrial societies, and even infantry > >companies in armies. Dr. Moore's woolgathering [I resent that! "vital > >contribution"...] might therefore have illuminated an important aspect >of > >humanity's past, as well as pointing to its possible future. --part1_d5.1596e149.29e0fb0b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xf01.mx.aol.com (rly-xf01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.225]) by air-xf04.mail.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXF42-0406155707; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:57:07 -0500 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13]) by rly-xf01.mx.aol.com (v84.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXF18-0406155654; Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:56:54 -0500 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g36KuT0n001476 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g36KuTw6001475 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (rly-ip01.mx.aol.com [205.188.156.49]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g36KuR0n001436 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from logs-wp.proxy.aol.com (logs-wp.proxy.aol.com [205.188.201.135]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA22200 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:56:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from scottlt (AC894EA2.ipt.aol.com [172.137.78.162]) by logs-wp.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g36Krs3154633 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:53:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000001c1ddad$2fa7eea0$0501a8c0@scottlt> From: "jakesmiley" To: "starship-design" Subject: starship-design: Of interest. Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:02:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Apparently-From: ScottPIC@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "jakesmiley" Hello... What follows is an article taken from the February 23rd issue of The Economist. (I should clean my closet more often.) How many people are needed in a spaceship? Regular readers will know that The Economist's answer to this question is: "none; space exploration is better done by robots". But this is true only if scientific information is the goal. If the aim is colonisation, then both men and women are necessary. In a session on interstellar travel at the AAAS festival in Boston, John Moore of the University of Florida, Gainesville, asked what human population would be necessary for a colonising mission to another solar system. It would be a long trip. Several bright physicists have spent their leisure hours designing propulsion systems that could send a craft to a nearby star in less than a human lifetime. One popular solution is to unfurl a light sail that would capture the energy beamed at it from a powerful laser in orbit around the sun. The problem is that deceleration at the other end takes so much time and energy that such a system is suitable only for 'fly-by' missions. A manned craft would take centuries to arrive, and would therefore require some sort of self-contained colony in which people could survive, reproduce and lead something approaching normal lives [I don't know if we could put that many politicians and criminals on board...]. The technical, ecological and financial problems of building such a colony ship would be enormous, of course. But even if they were overcome, the society inside would itself have to be viable [that was a _long_ segue!]. Dr. Moore, an anthropologist, set himself the task of designing such a society. He saw the crux of it as a compact between the generations to produce an acceptable crop of spouses for the future. By 'acceptable' he meant sufficient in number (a minimum choice of ten suitable members of the opposite sex) [ten! no wonder I haven't found a mate yet], and of suitable age (within three years of the individual doing the choosing) and consanguinity (not closer than second cousins). A computer model of his devising ["devising"? what, a model isn't accurate unless someone else had the chance to screw it up?] showed that an initial group of 150-180 people was just big enough to fulfill these criteria. Even when the model was run for 60-80 generations -- equivalent to a journey time of 2,000 years -- the compact could hold. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) the figure of 150-180 is the number of people which psychological testing has shown that an individual can know well enough to have a permanent relationship with. It is also the maximum size that anthropologists find for clans of hunter-gatherers, villages in pre-industrial societies, and even infantry companies in armies. Dr. Moore's woolgathering [I resent that! "vital contribution"...] might therefore have illuminated an important aspect of humanity's past, as well as pointing to its possible future. --part1_d5.1596e149.29e0fb0b_boundary-- From VM Mon Apr 8 10:08:37 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1217" "Sunday" "7" "April" "2002" "08:24:12" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "41" "starship-design: Small Laser-propelled Interstellar Probe" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1217 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g37DOm0n018061 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 06:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g37DOmdl018060 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 06:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@traffic.gnt.net [204.49.53.6]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g37DOl0n018055 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 06:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net [64.45.208.121]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA02991 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c1de37$834c2e60$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1DE0D.9A762660" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Small Laser-propelled Interstellar Probe Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:24:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1DE0D.9A762660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good paper on the evolution of Robert Forward's original Starwisp design: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Tech/Space/laser.txt Landis has done a lot of work on refining and reducing the concept into something that is practical with today's technology. Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1DE0D.9A762660 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="SandCastle Contractors, Inc. Parker, L. Clayton (E-mail).vcf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="SandCastle Contractors, Inc. Parker, L. Clayton (E-mail).vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Parker;L. FN:L. Clayton Parker (E-mail) ORG:SandCastle Contractors, Inc. TEL;WORK;VOICE:(850) 650-6588 TEL;HOME;VOICE:(850) 654-4773 TEL;CELL;VOICE:(850) 585-5502 TEL;CAR;VOICE:(850) 585-5504 TEL;WORK;FAX:(850) 650-6588 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 1762;Destin;FL;32540-1762 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 1762=3D0D=3D0ADestin, FL = 32540-1762 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:lparker@cacaphony.net REV:20011020T212607Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1DE0D.9A762660-- From VM Tue Apr 16 10:43:54 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["281" "Tuesday" "16" "April" "2002" "08:32:02" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "15" "starship-design: miscellaneous resource" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 281 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3GFW7eP017915 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g3GFW7V5017911 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from web13605.mail.yahoo.com (web13605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.116]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g3GFW6eP017867 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020416153202.69369.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.41] by web13605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:02 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: starship-design: miscellaneous resource Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT) some cosmology stuff: http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm keep looking up, Curtis ===== get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From VM Tue Apr 16 10:43:54 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["281" "Tuesday" "16" "April" "2002" "08:32:53" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "15" "starship-design: miscellaneous resource" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 281 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3GFWueP018133 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g3GFWugD018132 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from web13606.mail.yahoo.com (web13606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.117]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g3GFWteP018124 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020416153253.27422.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.41] by web13606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:53 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: starship-design: miscellaneous resource Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT) some cosmology stuff: http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm keep looking up, Curtis ===== get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From VM Fri Apr 19 10:13:16 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["14697" "Friday" "19" "April" "2002" "00:26:01" "EDT" "STAR1SHIP@aol.com" "STAR1SHIP@aol.com" nil "279" "Re: starship-design: Electric Plasma Rocket Engine?" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 14697 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3J4QEeP010668 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g3J4QEg7010667 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g3J4QCeP010658 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from STAR1SHIP@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.a9.2633358d (3972) for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_a9.2633358d.29f0f659_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: STAR1SHIP@aol.com From: STAR1SHIP@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Electric Plasma Rocket Engine? Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:26:01 EDT --part1_a9.2633358d.29f0f659_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/16/02 8:33:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 clmanges@yahoo.com writes: << starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu >> A Electric Plasma Rocket Engine? References: K. Ed Bohlen, former Vice President, International, Hypertherm. J.A. Hogan and J.B. Lewis, Plasma Processes of Cutting and Welding. (Project= =20 report by Bethlehem Steel Corporation in cooperation with U.S. Maritime=20 Administration, 1976). R.W. Couch, Thermal Cutting Processes, Fabtech International (October 1983). H. Flasskamp, Neure Erkenntnisse beim Plasmaschneiden von unlegierten and=20 11ochlegierten Staehlen (September 1984). quote.....Earlier, it was stated that the key to improving cut quality was=20 increasing arc constriction while preventing double arcing. In the water=20 injection plasma cutting process, water was radially injected into the arc i= n=20 a uniform manner as shown in Figure 10. The radial impingement of the water=20 at the arc provided a higher degree of arc constriction than could be=20 achieved by just the copper nozzle alone. Arc temperatures in this region ar= e=20 estimated to approach 50,000=B0K or roughly nine times the surface temperatu= re=20 of the sun and more than twice the temperature of the conventional plasma=20 arc. The net result was improved cut squareness, increased cutting speeds an= d=20 the elimination of dross when cutting mild steel. Radial water injection arc= =20 constriction was developed and patented in 1968 by Richard W. Couch Jr.,=20 President of Hypertherm, Inc. =20 end quote Citations: Hypertherm, Inc Etna Road, P.O. Box 5010 Hanover, NH 03755 USA 603-643-3441 Tel 800-643-0030 Tel (Toll Free in the USA and Canada) 603-643-5352 Fax info@hypertherm.com http://www.hypertherm.com Plasma Cutting History http://www.hypertherm.com/technology/plasma_history.htm#Water working diagram for above attached, Atomic Powered Plasma Rocket Engine http://communities.msn.com/Physics/general.msnw?action=3Dget_message&mview= =3D0&ID_ Message=3D2786&LastModified=3D4675368204012101627 quote: Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into the=20 world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's discovery of fire= .=20 This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted into the outmoded concept=20 of narrow nationalisms. For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no possibility of=20 control except through the aroused understanding and insistence of the=20 peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our inescapable responsibility= =20 to carry to our fellow citizens an understanding of atomic energy and its=20 implication for society. In this lies our only security and our only hope -=20 we believe that an informed citizenry will act for life and not for death. A. Einstein, 1947 d.C. Next Quote.....=20 The U.S. government (1938) decided to keep the science of the atomic bomb=20 devices secret and develop the radioactive metals industry. This let the=20 nuclear genie out of the bottle. They failed to keep the science secret. Thi= s=20 makes control, on the amount, location, and sources of all radioactive=20 metals, a requirement. A public domain nuclear bomb makes it necessary to pu= t=20 in the genie back in the bottle. The name of my bomb design is Genie Bottler= .=20 I will bear no responsibility for any deaths from the irresponsible decision= =20 of 1938 until all radioactive metals and the sources of them are under=20 international control and maximum security. It is a world that requires its=20 best science, in the hands maximum number of scientists, to solve the=20 problems the technology has created, and all the other unknowns it is capabl= e=20 of solving. -Thomas Hulon Jackson 1987 AD A Definitive Analysis of Atomic Power http://members.aol.com/tjac780754/indexda.html more Einstein wisdom....... As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as= =20 far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."--Albert Einstein "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, woul= d=20 it?" - Albert Einstein "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." --Albert=20 Einstein "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not= =20 sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all=20 comprehensible." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) "If one studies too zealously, one easily loses his pants." --Albert Einstei= n "The skeptic will say, 'It may well be true that this system of equations is reasonable from a logical standpoint, but this does not prove that it corresponds to nature.' You are right, dear skeptic. Experience alone can decide on truth. - Albert Einstein http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/einstein.html Unnamed Law: If it happens, it must be possible. =20 --part1_a9.2633358d.29f0f659_boundary Content-Type: image/gif; name="nuhist10.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nuhist10.gif" R0lGODlhOgG2AOcAAAAAAC0tLUpKSmZmZpCQkK2trbW1tb29vcbGxs7OztbW1t7e3ufn5+/v 7/f39////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAAA8ALAAAAAA6AbYABwj+AB8IHEiwoMGD CBMqXMiwocOHECNKnEixosWLGDNq3Mixo8ePIEOKHEmypMmTKFOqXMmypcuXMGPKnEmzps2b OHPq3Mmzp8+fQIMKHUq0qNGjSFsSYFigQdKnUKMyWMpwQNSrWIcOcNBwgNOsYMPiFODQAFWx aNN6JMC2rdsBA86Sbdhgrtq7eCk2IOCgr9+/fQdaLShAwOCBDuzmXcxYoYIDDw8vrNu4smWC BxI8VKzwwNnLoPMWYLCZa9WvoVOr5fsQweeEnFXLziq54euDBSKins2bZ+2WCQp77T3TrNsH DnJ7dHA7Z+yVBwQgaFBAwG7iLeEep9z1ukLuPZ/+qxSgWSCBwXshC1SAYID6Aw3iEiwwoDwC BgNIY4c4QPlABnYpoABBDSDAVWIICORAeQ5khtl9dhlggE7imbQUeAQpIIABA5DVQAD1CbBU YZ7NFReCD3TY3H4K9VcQgAIZRoB1KRomXQEgNhDdVgjYaKKPyAlQQHWm8UYWjAYNMOED1nFH GXkxwjdXjymuyGJCHRZW2AMw0meeVXMlACZp0cVYnnSJmUeWfA+wNdABDBRp2VQPYNgmk/oJ oAB4ATBpWlwKBKDlmgleGZl/AsHYIVxb1iYAae3FOBBbSMI4qGEDKUDfoARMJ2daBHz16KRg Fvood2lCmWJTczlAWn3+hh764poF9NWAU4cNOGqkfgrUH3fBMWmgAw18WlCB52kZVwLeUdRj ANBGK+20+o0UIZREPmCAAMx5KGJ8YOq5LVdCCptiebFWxZdfXJJFZZVMOuXmroPB9YCGTtG4 pZdMousQsa5lCddoxjJ0wLQITzvgSAp8FpxhRVa3VbszDibAjvo50OF7zaab5KXMDjYjpg9U R/KMC56V5ZIACilyYVZG5ICmWcroaWcJ5xwAeyNNDFF8hBXscW+uelbzWQbonDB7/nr0G0Ma F/T00OmilrTS0ybgIEgFFEr11x5djXW0Q4pUIdhoU4Tj2NEaoN5HUactN0Zij13A2x8R0PT+ 3HxDVLfSBHRtdt+ES7S20v1tuzDcUxfuuEF/T5t4dTuHRMDij2d+UOSCBl7AjNFi3tHZmj9e t4gSfi4AtSDtVfrrBSUt4gFmrZ5ztR35DHt8he3d4kQaa4n7Q8y1aRevSbZklgGfjz38RqT3 nRhfACJKkJtMCmS9Q+U+gEAAHbfIFQEgCnTA1HRCZxbbATyfEe2w+3oWd+ol0BdcCmybm3IF KMDmA+dLwJIGkoDPYK9H+RGImGBFkDS1qUMCeddBovcR2tmObaLTCAX5NqqCOBBWcBFgueYC IvxYZUbnCYCcWGOQ4CSnT4lJgIYK8jnzdGop58NSBkeSANewD1r+O7xI3OLHLYN8UDPYm4sS FUSWIvZKMKZRFnKcQhkAHUhqC5sXA8qEEOzV6FJgDKMYx1gAAzDgcBgMm9dgR6NJBclXCUqi pLL3Rrs40Ty4C1ZiCtMn45FsIG10U3W2lRCzoMRBaHSe0+InmLPM0IFQkiMdW9VEQMoJPwSB oIvS5CpfDTBFWaSKlhISuENyhXM6c59Fhhi/6S2oe9xKGhJFma85pgkuzFEhYQagAPxgKi68 a0BwbqUnghiyTVRxgKAEMxxfBREkB4BMIrGmyorojZGIyRK6Khaqe23IeHcKZzjPEx1jSSyO vsqPm87HQMTMRUAELE+ohrjBjTDgPtP+VFo1KVJPbEpERFPp50MutxANmeaaK8lnKjsSM39e 5DwNtcj2CJIAROEtJQq9HUfs51DaaAcmGU3YPiXyzI4SLqQI45lJ0caAlhJLQMXqi4D2pIAE MOBWFUGpwgxQ0oQgoIduOwACEGCAofbwAGUc6lBXGhXmFRWpZZQQ86I6JKnm9Ic7E+pEaBfN oEoommD9qoTWyNSjDKmMZ5XqVKVaRvipDatE9d1CkhPV1FG1qmcd0kXLWhSpdjV1Rf0qUt3m tqv+sIzAy6tT78rWs5KVr0QZLGDXmtaplo0i5GOfkh5LF7VS1au0++xeISuUxeb1c5Y97UQd olNoCYmzDqH+XWpPO9vLkravgEVrXe1KVcNiLXAEGGlC6Kra4lb2tkZxKmAHG1q1WvWtOhPR kAbQPr0o1rLYPe1okesT5eL1u8X1rbRkNKTMgo8idPXudyc7Vu4SBbzGVa14OzdV6kpLuAhx AG/hyzzPOdW9Q1FuY9uaOtna1nDR8pzqEhY+ppxVwQour2IB7JIxkhGAdSWw26rK3qv2Z8E6 a/BCxKrbEgtYqxRmiUC1B97URvisFQkt6KiJXgFT9qxQxXGKVTwRDq+VeVBl63MlorVtsQ+/ B6FOfOO73R1bayJOba5zPTvViSBgSBdU5ESULODvyhawsHXy4CSyWMu+WL4R2SL+UrGKZCOa Vsj8LayYUbJibbE3rZXNK5ET1NpotdmDZjbuiz85Z5LU2cZ3Y+yUZXaA8bHZuqdly4NLrNdC n+TQaB2wkHmrm67l8od/biCes/tZp4bZ0qODcm1Rq9vUEpmn5k1jYkmt4P5OGNWG3ipho7zb H0toInHqM7RCjZhALzmtuM614VoM39Na89Fbtuumm43YZI85IpEu7lT9O18ab7m4Z540oa2d ajJ7tteKHvdAoS0RJVPbuKcm90Xq3NVMj7q23dZnjVvta/bKWd4ewfSqR63bfC80sceWsJ4B HnBdf1moJJb2r6HLPhEPV7UDz7S6P+I68wykhhfxH0L+dOeQxolF4NLG+HEpzjahMYQBqd20 xIcU7404MDpnUncCHTLDg0Q0USJrTJ0FnfDpTCTLiIu2enk7W+VeOkFCIsvNQ1gyiD0gOM3s j2R6HherH2ZRpokOlISTIjWJyIYkwgqmv4zuKau1p12Ei9znHpdSSiTHRM9r4NQKt72dJ3tk CRaAhCl16XizXTHqZqaUmJu/F9HwgvfW4bPnJRTZi45ROTSVb7xfplfEqFr7aZPnatr4nlu3 o4fIGQW2Vw2JqV/YcwqSeAmvuujKID1/J5j60iQrxp5LFjuX9qzinjlmvsd6T3izLW7Emgoo AdC/j8waW1tSU/puFIG5wPT+5vIYFZ8txdwjBPHEpEFBvYVLvNfu6zJ3jX0Sk4DXT6QYWOed oLyy095tZaMZkefX9KfQx1EOUVHJp3DiBm7VBjUFlCXcFxGFwRUtY0NzRHsu0ia8h3vpJ3KP 50ZyBH9rQhXyQX9qt1VfJnMbFnOKVgByZRAMEIA1JVQuyFpxRnDrxWFltIJTITAGwHwKMSOA NBfn4UsD4iIA4hrplyHBp369EkJsIiL2UhcTUniM4itnwhA9UiT1V3//BDy1FW6Tpli3VlAM MFM1FYA2xRACRFg2+FmfY2Kpo2CYs3rCEVwdsSDxRCrUsRRiwhV74R879BXVki+mUUCY0z8D 8VP+yHGHRmQw5WN8DmgS9ZdetPVV9qZ/57Y1CNEA/jeGZgh9+5RxCGiACrckiREXRpd53RcS YqcecwEuS3IeA/NAH2UXFQMSWihp14Vn7waGCdhCZdiJPRSA+TVwTadtjdUWaQFyKhEduRcj Knh2afhNRzVCMTIhhNRwmOUWzLaLvHg3vtNL4MiJMhSA7nNP56ZerbaN5QVRsMMh2lJJsWdH /vJN2VMXaHVHNaMsdKcdbXE3MMhR9bcXboGLCYeCGldUw9NSnLiQLjg8FUV9JnZ9gsYW2rFa hJNDVUIW2ONAB/Y/RyIkMAYRflEsNyWO8IF5MgNR2hhlJWhXoaV/a4j+LsI0jgEIgAAogI+h WC/mheD2FqaYinKDkXt0dXPhJcFCKgSRfg5UbmQmQCqpjfHFk9qWKM4Hfb8YjGfIJZRognnG hnr3FoHTICvIN8hzjTWTL1J0KXRkMoaHjWQ2IK4xkGyxX6VmY27HPArSUjL0fMCoAFxBgFGZ bZ8TYXLJFgmiiUCpOcSCXiGhhTXVUhQplypnkDFXZXUCjAiQGVjJUVcmkW34XeEWmbA4IVbJ cI1pEVsjkGApisZVeqmTl3vJl1cZJ1fnmcW4hk+pHeUhQMRmmtxTEZrYS5NSmP6VXSeYW2oo EA0whmRYlS7oFJqiWlL5YIWZG345hvfSm77+uRD1J0PrsTgNA5aDRoNfWCv3UpM32UNGJZxn JJ0J1xZ1Z4qKmJ3byRH1d5IKlDGPIZoDqXzIxiWdyJdmSJtnhHfoGGnEiS5jeFP/UZ/QUxGX xCyJEpd15xZMB5F3M3Gu0oIzBYwy5BSASZc7CZ8VqoL/sTC06aD2qRHChKIIMCD82Y/8RmAc lijM6Ym/CIDsiVZ795nUCZ9u4QBDpR/FQhC0yYMqyp1CtJgA6p0zI0zEyZMK9pc1iZnkqJXW Z2ZxUaF6ozXlwaAGIUzamaRJiRHQNxB4GUHlYTTxGReV6WM22lLO55xW+ZdRZWC6BaSwyBpE ZRo1lWRZSaYVoYX+ylmk9/J8dUIsGaOnbbFr6mWjv/h/wEgaBSSYn8OPsMhRZ+qXy7mcxwKB KdEjVmdzhJoapYoYiKiVKIouZsGlBKmL32mGV2mGsud2g+mTLPSih8ggqIFTKjEu79gRSIod hFok7FEkuroemvGkt9qfBZamcjqnsypDpHFGszWQdecfH6qcY/gVi+mrXEJn6KIk5gMXVISM /sMmBMAheqIiyDEYYmeRxEoRfpkppOEX1bpGEqo9UfqZBkCl0Velmzkg7UmdXBoX1eKddQKm iyOki9OCCnIrndqpCtlLclqxzQmM1/Ec9DEzZBEodKgn8UEahrEX5GFFVXQqHZQu3fn+FWeq QOjSQwqSmppxqU9JkFwxq+LYiRCYp9iqN8mqsABKUVSpHy/rPVEqoxjnV2ClVJizlEm5MFZx lHWCHARVTB54gRU4ppWhhRv6tHICfTMDoJo4EHvhqgSZnXOqnmY4pCXTrHLJUS14tEVaJJp4 hq5ytJc2HyMyKAvydYaRQKPigcTUL2hDqMmKHBmDGkhFQO93dUm7IAGKlTZJGnJZodryNgkI plWrQF5DVCtxdjECdV+RG68HQCJDstVqMVpLFQjFssC5r53rQUzDJb3EIIgBt+janHPrgp6I TD5JGsVyptQ6IOCqnPdyKwMitk6RmPY0OyejJ9VxdYMRHJr+8k3DkbVpUhfgRzX1x1MwixBL hRyCgxzbpbu2S4Y7O47Sh631Y7YGgC6wdYol8zZ6axKe+qmZqCBE5CxEKpwetK+1WycA/CKe oY3rOqvpqTWFWaSGeqi0OTMZJEN+Sq1TNKyCahBa2K0Kgjk41RdnKqbN+7RGK5mR6qHGAVED ZCAKIsB7cp4UpR9zC7Ncm8EoSWTguTBlG76JoqAMAp5CNZDMyZyy6ZSSlqphC577usOye7QO a8MWQajLWS0uRcVx0rzFghqdpMWacVMqGbBtmxlXhoxXR8Ed3Ks5a7YtWC3wdCA5W8OCGpCD mLADdLQvjBzokj+IgRpT0RYu6H/+VllR7BhBXtNSBFQk8huz8puwcAfFE2RhYVQomMOe4Gi7 RmqkAzIzhjy7deIWM6WXNAl9kdnFlnzHXBIYNpq82CmziBG2jiwRznsQl3SKW7Q4hsrHWbkg u+EUKUynnRiXnaI1ftoU/2EsW1QeDfBvhhrLr1yHiLE1tRyxDaQg8aucQnuIfuy7C+zH7OGy ZqScBXNPu5msqJwo/NvMJ8GHf1mS93JFRlSt16m4iSgQHMIW4wiOwNiof+l8XHJTxkIssleG tsukBDK26HwSqeo9K7xDQuq4RJspbVGGt5vP5yG/haIjvrPJV4efO1wQKnXQJXErfnpTzVsn 1/GtZXz+yonIxn6cnttsz4liK1X7p4gBT4kCnf5M0KmMwSC9ZaihsAvip7asyP9BpOURnl1q ldPqx+1szSf6HzH70wxCxWPZ0xqRt3HSgi9Kkszbolm8nH2xoF/tKiPZqpcjrRQdOA+s08M1 zQrBzFaNE2btoZ3YFqkX16rhyZ64vqJMxldRJICdiuHDnHwMxW5B1zV5HFdxlNNrJkp6EA+z KI5Ipof9y22bwlnxI6aSiuKBPCvb1m6Nav3IoTd6lcCc2bpilD+iKjaSPRIUQYcxKkUZuOth I5DBfqoyZ8zBFpoZyOppVMAM1z2xLNahkUvxd0d5MTFiJ94jJMkiKR+UG8X+RBnFhyRz1sd6 w5c3Wtds0ciXBsmXIjCSgXXSDSCa0UEbGCOiSxA9MpeA1NwU6RWcEbjjN2duwYkdKps11Y80 carqPXxKtDDWsZRNRGjI89684s+0+ETeDVn3Tdegt4BeFBP+XX7KeTJbMb0Ejnjs/RtKdN4k yxd/Zy9/d912XYY/Na0ylMJw/KAZYVvFpyY+83USSEC3MRi+9DYf9SU/R1q3arFkSNdILa8p UeF4rRGHzdeWXUB+DRNGfuQXMZj1YVMcSpMSbVP7LWky8eRQrhcPLqfFK7AcGqQU3uUvcd/i LKlmGE2+zeQT3hJcbuYQAcwJQtpXHsq3eyvA3OP+1ybnKJHCVBGceqni5Dg+ig3nfp4SA2m2 e73AoOd8B0XmPJboJSGXRoqjbZ6ZWG7GNiTpKWFylG6m6NtAFjvEoRytw6O7LBzqRWHEcjlu CxKO0/qLz4PUrkrkrH4T4qnWsjyg/3eTvdsxB+yquR4UgL6uLucqFnsrO4uxC+HmTV7sPBGe q/7WSr3psnqlDJGHGyftsGzSMZXTihonG3rFynvFvSSxhD2TConfoCzWvr2cAwrKyr6c4Cgg Czro+N7uUzzFJF2S7R7w+b7v+W3T6KzJZeju6Y6jn0yte72XxYvP+D7RqN5SWXyxL4Xv9m5T EvzJEr222X7ts47YoSz+5DR98Hsysf48seq+8hYv67db6sHJux1q5cpulaBs2ZIbyimO2AIa oPgt8hfrfEMcrTAl3Awnpu1OraS9oLIO8Scs5H+M7RJtuzh/t0PP8RGP6gSP3xlL8/hsU7HZ nGht5S2Oasr+mAovjh06tz9P8r7ru/vunVO8lxKridEa0EU/8UDu9UOM7ziP8zXvfzVf8r8I 0pq81zNl70U/8DEvjgNfsQop9gBv9ACN82Jd85RKk707qyc8VIR+Hzv/ooTOLEwT5Ij/7+re 7/3e7o/p71ju8V7/8XhOjvIu8jnK8Tpa+1I/ubFvPxMfm1TO97Z7sZzbzPnu9BLv8Z4o91P+ X/IQD/WB74kvhfkST8ESvJCfTMQRr99AvvgzA/VRD+mAj/MgLa1ETPhM/5hqn9/3nPwTj7GR L5y3Qo7LT8F3S/uBLKkqvsDMu5kAkSBBAwUCDRZU4CBBQYEKGDyAGFHiRIoVLV7EmFHjRo4d PX4EmbEBAwYESzJwaJJkSYcOUY5U4BIlQoQkGyJsaPBgAgc2ESyMmeBnwwYKFw4tONTgT4YL cwLN+YDBU5Q9gyYg6VBqzKwPQ34FG1bsWLJlH/RECRQnVLZBmzJ0u1Pn0rlwIRJ0ihUuVgdB p8YE/NctSsJcDRfeCnhhgwcNHLd9MFegWcqVLV/GPNHqwalA02L+7YxV9MK0fhnOVAAzLWrC VRsLdimQcF/ZgGk+bXo0b+4EkXX+ZEzaKVPfORVkRp5c+fKKPUeuhH4ytequI/G2JL3y5na4 uRnQrqszodykks2Hj2rz6nfCoGMyRp2S+Xz69cdCh6rYoXDeBUOLv+oqqDoTEKuzCOqOq+9o a22161YKzLb33ErNtwg3k22xvj5byD4PPwTRor6uG4yr7YyTy6m3yHtqt4LOQss//0pyoCfS Uvprpq5kjG8/th5Yi8MTgTQvRCOPrC/G1HQk6TGXZHRPuq5am1FBCVETqMbnapJNOuPK60+o vM47qIHhzmNIqgFjQrJNNzGrEa2SrHv+rkEIbySwu7Z2ym3ForISsyaWAjVxzIP2Ugu7/bBT jzXPlnzSpTcnpVQsGfUrbTUV+dyJqTEXNe3GAWGESaYagZwKQtviwxPUmq6UDFHz3vKqUltv 1YhKB3VtUMHnQLOztecQhHDKDuUc0DGjcFtxxRYPFQ89ujgTsCRcr8VWsy0da5JOmawULFNF mxUz2jHZG0m8Ggl08SYBVzWspXh1DAy2J6Hzq9Zs97UVwcC6XCtAw0RtSVw8mSwsK0lhhM4B iFRtUmEmFbtT4Rm5O9Hc0HLjt2NbHR7J4cYgcjjOu0Qm+dRTJVoZZY1QLipdz1b2uGabb1ZO y8AYcxlnn38+BvortIoKumijjxaJW8aQZrrpojdU1mmpp67ZZKqvxhpXq7Pmuusjle3Za7HH Jrtss4MO+2y11/ZoabZ/DggAOw== --part1_a9.2633358d.29f0f659_boundary-- From VM Mon May 13 10:17:29 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1326" "Saturday" "11" "May" "2002" "08:50:19" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "22" "starship-design: ANOTHER UNIVERSE" "^From:" nil nil "5" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1326 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4BDpBAI025279 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4BDpBSk025278 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:51:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4BDpAAI025269 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176XHB-0000dx-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:51:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c1f8f2$caf013f0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: ANOTHER UNIVERSE Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:50:19 -0500 ANOTHER UNIVERSE MIGHT LURK ONLY MILLIMETERS away from our universe, but we wouldn't know it because it exists on its own membrane separated from our membrane in some extra spatial dimension. Matter on the other membrane would be invisible but could exert a gravitational effect and would, in fact, constitute the "dark matter" for which astrophysicists have sought for some years. In a recent paper Paul Steinhardt (Princeton) and Neil Turok (Cambridge) propose that the structure in our universe may well have come about in the collision of two such membrane universes. All the historical events in the life of our cosmos initial big bang, subsequent expansion of galaxies, even the currently observed accelerated expansion phase, and finally a contraction into a "big crunch" would be played out in a recurring drama. This cyclic cosmology (an extension of Steinhardt's "ekpyrosis" theory; see Update 535) uses all the latest tools of string theory, accounts for the "dark energy" supposedly firing cosmic acceleration, and would have no need for an ad-hoc "inflationary" phase appended to the standard big bang model to explain such cosmological features such as the horizon problem (why the extreme edges of the visible universe seem to be at the same temperature). (Sciencexpress, 25 April, soon to be in Science.) From VM Thu May 30 15:51:37 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["11966" "Thursday" "30" "May" "2002" "15:42:08" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "151" "starship-design: relativity experiments" "^From:" nil nil "5" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 11966 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4UMgG7l022411 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 15:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4UMgGFb022410 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 30 May 2002 15:42:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from web13602.mail.yahoo.com (web13602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.113]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g4UMgC7l022357 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 15:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020530224208.58997.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.54] by web13602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 May 2002 15:42:08 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1461857383-1022798528=:58757" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: starship-design: relativity experiments Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) --0-1461857383-1022798528=:58757 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii in case you haven't already seen it, check this out: Contact: Jane Platt (818) 354-0880 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 29, 2002 WAS EINSTEIN WRONG? SPACE STATION RESEARCH MAY FIND OUT Ultra-precise clocks on the International Space Station and other space missions may determine whether Albert Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity is correct and could dramatically change our understanding of the universe. The theory, introduced in 1905, holds that if an observer moves at a uniform speed, no matter how fast or in what direction, the laws of physics and the speed of light are always the same. For example, if you stand still and drop a coin, it will fall straight down. Similarly, if you drop a coin inside a car while you're driving down the freeway at a steady speed, it will also fall straight down. However, recent theories attempting to combine gravity and particle physics suggest that relativity might not always apply; changes in space and time may occur that could not be measured easily on Earth. "The International Space Station will have ultra-sensitive clocks on board, and it is a good place to test the theory," said Dr. Alan Kostelecky, professor of physics at Indiana University, Bloomington. "By comparing extremely precise clocks that can operate under zero gravity, minuscule changes in the ticking rate might be found as the spacecraft moves around Earth." This would violate Einstein's theory, which says there should be no change if different clocks in the same gravity environment are compared. "Finding such changes would cause an upheaval in the science community and revolutionize our thinking about the fundamental structure of space and time," he added. "It would lead to insight about how our universe formed and how nature operates." Measurements in space have several advantages over ones on Earth because the Earth's rotation axis and its rotation rate are fixed. In space the orbital axis of a satellite and its rotation rate can be different, and higher speeds are possible. Measurements in space would therefore be more sensitive to minute changes that would violate Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Kostelecky and his colleagues Robert Bluhm of Colby College, Waterville, Me.; Charles Lane of Berry College, Mount Berry, Ga.; and Neil Russell of Northern Michigan University, Marquette, propose using specific types of clocks on the space station. For example, one type would use a maser, a cousin of the laser. Instead of emitting light, like a laser, the maser emits microwave energy at a specific frequency, which produces a very specific ticking. Other types of clocks already planned for flight on the International Space Station could be used too. Upcoming missions include the Primary Atomic Reference Clock in Space, the Rubidium Atomic Clock Experiment and the Superconducting Microwave Oscillator. All three are part of NASA's Fundamental Physics Program. In addition, the Atomic Clock Ensemble in Space will be flown on the International Space Station by the European Space Agency. Kostelecky says clock experiments in space may yield other intriguing results. For example, they might provide evidence for string theory. Traditionally, scientists have believed that the smallest units in the universe are particles. However, advocates of string theory believe the smallest units are elongated, like tiny pieces of string. In some string theories, empty space has an intrinsic direction. This could cause the clocks on the space station to tick at changing rates, depending on their orientation. In addition to the International Space Station, other future missions may also test the Theory of Relativity. The proposed SpaceTime mission would fly three clocks past Jupiter, then would drop the spacecraft rapidly in toward the Sun, like an extreme version of an amusement park freefall ride. The high speed of this NASA mission would make possible new kinds of sensitive tests. The paper by Kostelecky and his colleagues appeared in the March 4 issue of the Physical Review Letters. It is available online at: http://prola.aps.org volume 88, article 090801 for 2002. Animation of the proposed space station experiments is available at http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/videos/sg/space_physics.html and http://physics.indiana.edu/~kostelec/mov.html . More information on the experiments and NASA's Fundamental Physics Program can be found at the following Web sites: http://physics.indiana.edu/~kostelec/faq.html http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov http://funphysics.jpl.nasa.gov Kostelecky conducts research under NASA's Fundamental Physics in Microgravity Research Program, part of NASA's Office of Biological and Physical Research, Washington. NASA'S Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Fundamental Physics program. get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-1461857383-1022798528=:58757 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

in case you haven't already seen it, check this out:


Contact: Jane Platt (818) 354-0880

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                                             May
29, 2002

WAS EINSTEIN WRONG?  SPACE STATION RESEARCH MAY FIND OUT

     Ultra-precise clocks on the International Space Station and other
space missions may
determine whether Albert Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity is
correct and could dramatically
change our understanding of the universe.

     The theory, introduced in 1905, holds that if an observer moves at
a uniform speed, no matter
how fast or in what direction, the laws of physics and the speed of
light are always the same. For
example, if you stand still and drop a coin, it will fall straight
down. Similarly, if you drop a coin
inside a car while you're driving down the freeway at a steady speed,
it will also fall straight down.

     However, recent theories attempting to combine gravity and
particle physics suggest that
relativity might not always apply; changes in space and time may occur
that could not be measured
easily on Earth.

     "The International Space Station will have ultra-sensitive clocks
on board, and it is a good
place to test the theory," said Dr. Alan Kostelecky, professor of
physics at Indiana University,
Bloomington. "By comparing extremely precise clocks that can operate
under zero gravity,
minuscule changes in the ticking rate might be found as the spacecraft
moves around Earth." This
would violate Einstein's theory, which says there should be no change
if different clocks in the same
gravity environment are compared.

     "Finding such ! changes would cause an upheaval in the science
community and revolutionize
our thinking about the fundamental structure of space and time," he
added. "It would lead to insight
about how our universe formed and how nature operates."

     Measurements in space have several advantages over ones on Earth
because the Earth's
rotation axis and its rotation rate are fixed. In space the orbital
axis of a satellite and its rotation rate
can be different, and higher speeds are possible. Measurements in space
would therefore be more
sensitive to minute changes that would violate Einstein's Theory of
Relativity.

     Kostelecky and his colleagues Robert Bluhm of Colby College,
Waterville, Me.; Charles
Lane of Berry College, Mount Berry, Ga.; and Neil Russell of Northern
Michigan University,
Marquette, propose using specific types of clocks on the space station.
For example, one type would
use a maser, a cousin of the laser. Instead of emitting light, like a
laser, the maser emits microwave
energy at a specific frequency, which produces a very specific ticking.

     Other types of clocks already planned for flight on the
International Space Station could be
used too. Upcoming missions include the Primary Atomic Reference Clock
in Space, the Rubidium
Atomic Clock Experiment and the Superconducting Microwave Oscillator.
All three are part of
NASA's Fundamental Physics Program. In addition, the Atomic Clock
Ensemble in Space will be
flown on the International Space Station by the European Space Agency.

     Kostelecky says clock experiments in space may yield other
intriguing results. For example,
they might provide evidence for string theory. Traditionally,
scientists have believed that the smallest
units in the universe are particles. However, advocates of string
theory believe the smallest uni! ts are < BR>elongated, like tiny pieces of string. In some string theories, empty
space has an intrinsic direction.
This could cause the clocks on the space station to tick at changing
rates, depending on their
orientation.

     In addition to the International Space Station, other future
missions may also test the Theory
of Relativity. The proposed SpaceTime mission would fly three clocks
past Jupiter, then would drop
the spacecraft rapidly in toward the Sun, like an extreme version of an
amusement park freefall ride.
The high speed of this NASA mission would make possible new kinds of
sensitive tests.

     The paper by Kostelecky and his colleagues appeared in the March 4
issue of the Physical
Review Letters. It is available online at: http://prola.aps.org volume
88, article 090801 for 2002.

     Animation of the proposed space station experiments is available
at
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/videos/sg/space_physics.html  and
http://physics.indiana.edu/~kostelec/mov.html .

     More information on the experiments and NASA's Fundamental Physics
Program can be
found at the following Web sites:

http://physics.indiana.edu/~kostelec/faq.html
http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov
http://funphysics.jpl.nasa.gov

     Kostelecky conducts research under NASA's Fundamental Physics in
Microgravity Research
Program, part of NASA's Office of Biological and Physical Research,
Washington. NASA'S Jet
Propulsi! on Labor atory, Pasadena, Calif., a division of the California
Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, manages the Fundamental Physics program.



get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com



Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-1461857383-1022798528=:58757-- From VM Mon Jun 3 10:19:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["3866" "Saturday" "1" "June" "2002" "13:24:22" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "75" "starship-design: Intelligent Aliens?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 3866 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g51IPO7l003361 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g51IPNpe003360 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g51IPN7l003355 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17EDZ4-0004hg-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:25:22 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c20999$8e3eecd0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Intelligent Aliens? Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:24:22 -0500 Intelligent Aliens? By Seth Shostak Senior Astronomer, Project Phoenix posted: 07:00 am ET 30 May 2002 There may be a lot of life in the universe. If so, it’s a safe bet that most of it will score lower on the SATs than you. Just consider the situation on one planet: ours. There are millions of species on Earth. Millions. Among this protoplasmic plentitude, how many species are smart enough to be interesting on the telephone or able to help you with Sunday’s crossword? Well, there’s Homo sapiens, and then there’s… nobody. Is this a momentous fact or not? Is the circumstance that we can look around and find we’re the brainiest boffins on the planet merely a trivial result of being the first species able to notice? Or is there some reason to think that intelligence is actually a rare and unlikely evolutionary development, and Homo sapiens has lucked out? This is more than just another good question to bandy about after dinner, between the cigars and the port. It goes right to the heart of our place in the universe. And it’s also of obvious and critical importance to SETI researchers. After all, we’re on a fool’s mission deploying our SETI telescopes if there’s no intelligent life out there. So how can we judge whether intelligence is a likely evolutionary development or not? We do the obvious, and look for hints in Earth’s history. Earth is, after all, the only example we have. Since high IQ critters appeared here, there’s a tendency to assume that our planet is just another typical, run-of-the-mill rocky world, and what happened on our planet might happen on their planet, too. Sooner or later, intelligence will arise. But there are flies in this ointment. Sixty-five million years ago, a rock the size of Brooklyn slammed into the Earth, wiping out three-fourths of all species, including the dinosaurs. If this hadn’t happened, the rat-like mammals that eventually evolved into Homo sapiens wouldn’t have inherited the world. And 245 million years ago, another catastrophe (known in polite society as the Permian extinction) wrote finis to an even larger percentage of species. These cosmic accidents were all forks in the long road that eventually led to us. Maybe on other worlds, the road never gets that far. On the other hand, there are some common behaviors among animals that seem to favor intelligence. Social interaction, for example. If you’re a critter that hangs out with others, then there’s clearly an advantage in being smart enough to gauge the intentions of the guy sitting next to you (before he nabs your mate or your meal). And if you’re clever enough to outwit the other members of your social circle, you’ll probably have enhanced opportunity to breed (to put it graciously), thus passing on your superior smarts. Predator-prey relations are another type of interaction that can ratchet up intelligence. When a lioness catches a wildebeest, she’s more likely to snag the dumb one that wasn’t paying attention. Result? The lioness has a meal, but the average IQ of the wildebeests has been raised. This puts the lions under increased pressure in running down their next meal, and the dumber cats will preferentially drop out of the gene pool. Both predator and prey will be under selective pressure for intelligence. All of this sounds as if Nature – whether on our planet or some alien world – will stumble into increased IQ sooner or later. But keep in mind that many of the dinosaurs were in predator-prey relations (and may have been somewhat social, too). Why didn’t they get smart? After all, they had 140 million years to do so. When it comes to the evolution of intelligence, the bottom line is that we don’t know the bottom line. And indeed, we may never know how likely it is that intelligence will appear unless and until we find it elsewhere. So we’ ll keep deploying those SETI telescopes. From VM Mon Jun 3 10:19:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4350" "Sunday" "2" "June" "2002" "16:12:51" "+0100" "Peter / Sci" "scifox@asylum30.freeserve.co.uk" nil "77" "starship-design: Computer displays et al." "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4350 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g52FGg7l010117 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g52FGgYX010116 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:16:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.174]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g52FGe7l010108 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from modem-2496.aardvark.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.9.192] helo=kat) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17EX5y-0003Pz-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:16:39 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c20a47$f7a337e0$c00986d9@kat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Peter / Sci" From: "Peter / Sci" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship Design" Subject: starship-design: Computer displays et al. Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:12:51 +0100 I've recently reinstalled my computer with Win2k, following the rather extending death-throws of '98. Decided to reduce the system load a little this time by opting for a combined messenger, Trillian. Today while downloading a few skins for said program, my mind wandered onto the simple question of ergonomics. Visually, the base Trillian skin is resonable enough, though a little difficult to read, I found. I'm not sugesting the use of interface skins, even though it could make tasks easier for individuals, it would make other task more difficult if, say, you forgot your own skin password and had to figure out which Smiley repressents the command to dump the engine-core before it blows. As I see it, ergonomics is also about more than ease-of-use, when regarding control systems, it must also be intuitive (red=bad/danger, sorta stuff). Anyway, I have a few ideas on paper, and hopefully get them uploaded when I have some webspace again. Either case, I would count http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/skins/DreamScreen.jpg to be a good and clear example, while http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/skins/s3-screenshot.gif is not, due to it's difficult to read font and background/text colour choices. For the most part though, the argument is academic at this time, as the entire computer system, in my mind, should be redesigned from scratch. Home PCs carry with them decades of obsolete design-traits, to make them backwards-compatible primarily. The ship-board computers have very little family to be compatible with, so mark a great point at which to start over from scratch. Such recent developments such as 1000 electron memorys would be perfect be for use amid a ships various internal and external sensors, providing a sort of integral black-box (electron memory, does not rely of capacitors on chips, and is entirly stable). In a similer sence we can rule out certain future technologys for use in ships, as quantum-computers need only asingle cosmic-ray to spoil them, and a likewise small charge to spoil a high-density computer chip. Some things just seem too delicate to use. I would like to suggest though, as it is frequently pointed out a lot of computer-power could be used for navigation, that a seperate, or remote, computer be used entirely for navigation. Designed and intended for plotting of courses (and their execution too?), it would most likely be vastly supperior in operation to a large multi-purpose machine. Even today, a high-spec machine running an emulator, can be beaten by the old WW2 code-crackers, because it has been designed and built for that purpose alone. Utterly dedicated. I envision a unit that plugged into the ships network, but it unlike the rest of it. It only uses the network for sending and receiving of the raw data, and none of it's processing. Able to use it's inbuilt navigation engine, to desern the best aproach-paths, orbits, exit-path, headings, etc.. and feed them to the navigational displays for confirmation/use. Such output I feel would be a good use for the relativly primative holographics we have available to us. I imagine 3D navigation might be rather tricky without it to enable us to visualise it. The one that springs to mind was shown on a BBC program, "Tommorows World" some years ago, and I seem unable to find a more up to date source of information on it. It was being concidered as an alternate display for air-traffic-control. It concisted of a tube with a rapidly spinning single-helix within it, a single turn of which took up the entire height of the small chamber. It was spun, and since the helix took up only one turn of height, a laser, projected from below witht he right timing, was able to set the point of it's height by whatever part of the helix was passing above it at the time, thus enabling graphics to be displayed as a truely 3D image. A larger, and preferably colour, vesion of this I think be the perfect navigational display. For the momment, that's all I have to say, but I do ask something also. A long time ago, an aquaintence mentioned a theoretical drive-system he called a Spin-Drive, that was supposed to use so quirk of quantum to enfold a craft in a mobile pocket-universe. Was he merely quoting some sci-fi story, or is there some backing for this? I have been unable to find further information. My best wishes, Sci From VM Mon Jun 3 11:22:39 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["3325" "Monday" "3" "June" "2002" "13:57:43" "+0100" "Peter / Sci" "scifox@asylum30.freeserve.co.uk" nil "63" "Re: starship-design: Computer displays et al." "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 3325 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g53IGj7l009937 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g53IGiLH009909 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g53IGP7l008469 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from modem-1614.aardvark.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.6.78] helo=kat) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17EwNO-0002E3-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 19:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c20b2a$3c3678d0$4e0686d9@kat> References: <001001c20a47$f7a337e0$c00986d9@kat> <3CFA8E0E.F66E0F31@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Peter / Sci" From: "Peter / Sci" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship Design" Subject: Re: starship-design: Computer displays et al. Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:57:43 +0100 > Peter / Sci wrote: > > > Such output I feel would be a good use for the relativly primative > > holographics we have available to us. I imagine 3D navigation might be > > rather tricky without it to enable us to visualise it. > > The one that springs to mind was shown on a BBC program, "Tommorows World" > > some years ago, and I seem unable to find a more up to date source of > > information on it. It was being concidered as an alternate display for > > air-traffic-control. > > It concisted of a tube with a rapidly spinning single-helix within it, a > > single turn of which took up the entire height of the small chamber. It was > > spun, and since the helix took up only one turn of height, a laser, > > projected from below witht he right timing, was able to set the point of > > it's height by whatever part of the helix was passing above it at the time, > > thus enabling graphics to be displayed as a truely 3D image. > > A larger, and preferably colour, vesion of this I think be the perfect > > navigational display. > > > I think the real computers used will have less functionally as the movie > and > tv people would have us believe. Other a shuttle from ground to orbit > what > need is there for fancy navigational stuff. Just point it in the right > direction and go for naviation to the stars as it takes a good while to > get > where you are going. I mean for signifigently more that just surface to orbit manuveres. I mean entire package. Launch (however unlikely that a whole starship would be launched from the surface), orbital insertion, adjustments in orbital height (from low, to geostationary, etc, or even insertion at Le Grange points), orbits worked out on-the-fly by gravitational well measurements. Possibly also facility for aerobraking and other rare (hopefully) ship manuvres. I'm thinking beyond Sol-system operations to the potential for having to come up with safe routes in new terratories (after all, the first starships will be probes and exploration craft, yes?). I brought up holographics, because as I see it the best way to represent manuveres in 3 dimentions is with a 3dimentional display system. True, a screen can display can display a 2D interpretation of a 3D environment, but I can't see it ever providing as much information as a 3D display. I agree that most of the computing power on the ship, will probably consist of nothing more than "smart" system relays. If you want videos or music, etc, played on your own computer (I mean, we do have to think of the psychological wellbeing too, of the crew), you plug it into the ship network, dumb in itself, and transfer what you want (low priority data) from someone else on the network, or a central data-storage. Whereas changes to essential systems would be reported to whatever terminals were at the time logged in as engineering/environmental/etc, (mid to high priority data). Things like signels to manuvering thrusters or engines, would be high-priority data, getting transfered first through the network, or possibly having their own seperate control lines. Thought: Would there be a backup control room or alow the ship to be controlled from anywhere on board, with correct accesss? The later would seem more prudent, as it alows more redundency in the system, without any extra physical parts. Sci From VM Mon Jun 3 12:19:08 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2262" "Monday" "3" "June" "2002" "14:09:57" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "46" "RE: starship-design: Computer displays et al." "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2262 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g53JB87l014001 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g53JB8Ib014000 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:11:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darkwing.uoregon.edu: majordom set sender to owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu using -f Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g53JB27l013919 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ExEI-0000v5-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c20b32$4112b2d0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000001c20b2a$3c3678d0$4e0686d9@kat> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Starship Design'" Subject: RE: starship-design: Computer displays et al. Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:09:57 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of > Peter / Sci > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:58 AM > To: Starship Design > Subject: Re: starship-design: Computer displays et al. > > I agree that most of the computing power on the ship, will > probably consist [clip] For an exploration ship on a multi-year mission an actual "Control Room" is probably not terribly necessary. Most day-to-day operations of the ship would perforce be automated to a great extent, not requiring constant oversight. In fact, once safely on course, there would be almost nothing to do at all. Even for Kelly's Explorer class of starship I can't see needing a control room any bigger than what is currently on the Space Shuttle. With wall sized flat screens in everyone's quarters, wireless PDAs and voice controlled interaction with the C3 systems, control oversight could be exercised from just about anywhere. Once the exploration vessel was in-system, there would be a much greater amount of daily decision making going on so there might be some social usefulness to having a centrally designated Control Room, but this could be configured shortly before the exploration vessel arrives from an empty storage room that used to house food for the journey. The control runs for the equipment would of course have been preinstalled in several storage rooms for that eventuality. Probably also want a control room for the exploration itself, not just control of the ship and its landing craft. As for redundancy, I would think that the computer network would be a distributed model with multiple redundant main processors located throughout the ship. It would even be able to draw on the power of individual PDAs if needed. Since the charter of this group is to explore technology feasible within the next fifty years, you should be willing to speculate a little about changes to computing technology within that timeframe. For instance, the "PDA" may well be physically inside your head and wired to your nervous system through your eyes, ears and spinal cord. This is important because then the holographic display wouldn't really be necessary, it would be 3-D inside your head! Lee From VM Mon Jun 10 10:25:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2168" "Saturday" "8" "June" "2002" "16:43:56" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "42" "starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2168 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g58Lj9xf016354 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 14:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g58Lj9Ur016352 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 14:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g58Lj4xf016332 for ; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 14:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Go16-0001db-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 14:45:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c20f35$97d5a6c0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 16:43:56 -0500 USAF Teams With Industry To Develop Laser Guns For Jet Fighters Kirtland AFB - June 5, 2002 Exploring the feasibility of using high-energy lasers on fighter aircraft is the aim of an agreement signed Friday (May 31) between the Air Force Research Laboratory here and Lockheed Martin of Fort Worth, Texas. Under a Cooperative Research And Development Agreement, or CRADA, the laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate and Lockheed Martin's Aeronautics Company will pool their resources. The Air Force laboratory will contribute its expertise in high-energy lasers, laser beam-control technology and laser vulnerability data. Lockheed Martin will use the Air Force's information and examine the integration and optimum performance of high-energy lasers and beam-control technology on various fighter aircraft such as the F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The company will also assess the military value and potential of lasers on tactical platforms and evaluate related aero-optic issues. Both organizations are expected to benefit from the cooperative effort and information transfer. The directorate will get insight into the Joint Strike Fighter and other Lockheed Martin platforms to better determine how to apply future research to operational systems that benefit the warfighter. Lockheed Martin will get better technical information on high-energy lasers and beam control systems that will help the company design better weapons systems for its aircraft. The overall cooperative effort is expected to advance and further the development of high-energy lasers aboard tactical aircraft. The laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate is building on past accomplishments. Its scientists invented the chemical laser that is being used on the Airborne Laser, a Boeing 747-400 series jumbo jet aircraft, under development, that will use a laser to destroy ballistic missiles shortly after being launched while still in powered flight. The directorate is also providing technical support to the Airborne Laser program. In the early 1980s, the directorate demonstrated that a modified Boeing 707 laser-armed aircraft could destroy targets in the air. From VM Mon Jun 10 10:25:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["6231" "Sunday" "9" "June" "2002" "06:41:19" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "74" "Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 6231 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g59DfKxf026378 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 06:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g59DfKYW026377 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 06:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13604.mail.yahoo.com (web13604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.115]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with SMTP id g59DfJxf026372 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 06:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020609134119.11184.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.136] by web13604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 06:41:19 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-95676407-1023630079=:7991" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 06:41:19 -0700 (PDT) --0-95676407-1023630079=:7991 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii intersting, but will it really work? I thought I'd heard something about lasers (though good in space) being lousy as atmospheric weapons. I think it's because the beam begins to ionize the air in its path and causes diffusion. tell me if that sounds right. keep looking up Curtis "L. Parker" wrote: From: "L. Parker" To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 16:43:56 -0500 USAF Teams With Industry To Develop Laser Guns For Jet Fighters Kirtland AFB - June 5, 2002 Exploring the feasibility of using high-energy lasers on fighter aircraft is the aim of an agreement signed Friday (May 31) between the Air Force Research Laboratory here and Lockheed Martin of Fort Worth, Texas. Under a Cooperative Research And Development Agreement, or CRADA, the laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate and Lockheed Martin's Aeronautics Company will pool their resources. The Air Force laboratory will contribute its expertise in high-energy lasers, laser beam-control technology and laser vulnerability data. Lockheed Martin will use the Air Force's information and examine the integration and optimum performance of high-energy lasers and beam-control technology on various fighter aircraft such as the F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The company will also assess the military value and potential of lasers on tactical platforms and evaluate related aero-optic issues. Both organizations are expected to benefit from the cooperative effort and information transfer. The directorate will get insight into the Joint Strike Fighter and other Lockheed Martin platforms to better determine how to apply future research to operational systems that benefit the warfighter. Lockheed Martin will get better technical information on high-energy lasers and beam control systems that will help the company design better weapons systems for its aircraft. The overall cooperative effort is expected to advance and further the development of high-energy lasers aboard tactical aircraft. The laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate is building on past accomplishments. Its scientists invented the chemical laser that is being used on the Airborne Laser, a Boeing 747-400 series jumbo jet aircraft, under development, that will use a laser to destroy ballistic missiles shortly after being launched while still in powered flight. The directorate is also providing technical support to the Airborne Laser program. In the early 1980s, the directorate demonstrated that a modified Boeing 707 laser-armed aircraft could destroy targets in the air. get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-95676407-1023630079=:7991 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

intersting, but will it really work? I thought I'd heard something about lasers (though good in space) being lousy as atmospheric weapons. I think it's because the beam begins to ionize the air in its path and causes diffusion. tell me if that sounds right.

keep looking up

Curtis

  "L. Parker" <lparker@cacaphony.net> wrote:

From: "L. Parker"
To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)"
Subject: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 16:43:56 -0500

USAF Teams With Industry To Develop Laser Guns For Jet Fighters

Kirtland AFB - June 5, 2002

Exploring the feasibility of using high-energy lasers on fighter aircraft is
the aim of an agreement signed Friday (May 31) between the Air Force
Research Laboratory here and Lockheed Martin of Fort Worth, Texas.

Under a Cooperative Research And Development Agreement, or CRADA, the
laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate and Lockheed Martin's Aeronautics
Company will pool their resources.

The Air Force laboratory will contribute its expertise in high-energy
lasers, laser beam-control technology and laser vulnerability data. Lockheed
Martin will use the Air Force's information and examine the integration and
optimum performance of high-energy lasers and beam-control technology on
various fighter aircraft such as the F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 Joint Strike
Fighter.

The company will also assess the military value and potential of lasers on
tactical platforms and evaluate related aero-optic issues.

Both organizations are expected to benefit from the cooperative effort and
information transfer. The directorate will get insight into the Joint Strike
Fighter and other Lockheed Martin platforms to better determine how to apply
future research to operational systems that benefit the warfighter.

Lockheed Martin will get better technical information on high-energy lasers
and beam control systems that will help the company design better weapons
systems for its aircraft. The overall cooperative effort is expected to
advance and further the development of high-energy lasers aboard tactical
aircraft.
The laboratory's Directed Energy Directorate is building on past
accomplishments. Its scientists invented the chemical laser that is being
used on the Airborne Laser, a Boeing 747-400 series jumbo jet aircraft,
under development, that will use a laser to destroy ballistic missiles
shortly after being launched while still in powered flight.

The directorate is also providing technical support to the Airborne Laser
program. In the early 1980s, the directorate demonstrated that a modified
Boeing 707 laser-armed aircraft could destroy targets in the air.


get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com



Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-95676407-1023630079=:7991-- From VM Mon Jun 10 10:25:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1354" "Sunday" "9" "June" "2002" "16:49:16" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "34" "RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1354 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g59LoRxf011580 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g59LoR7q011577 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g59LoLxf011540 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 14:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HAZo-0002ja-00; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 14:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: <004901c20fff$80fb86c0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20020609134119.11184.qmail@web13604.mail.yahoo.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:49:16 -0500 Bingo! Atmospheric ionization was one of the largest obstacles airborne lasers had to overcome. It caused a thermal bloom which then spread the beam and significantly reduced energy on target. This has been mostly overcome, but at the speeds fighter aircraft typically move, they will outrun the solution. So why are they looking at laser weapons on a fighter airframe if they aren't going to be significantly better than missiles or guns? Because Black Horse is a fighter sized airframe and is designed to reach orbit...where atmospheric interference is no longer a problem and the laser WILL outperform missiles and guns. It makes one heck of a quick launch antisatellite weapon and would probably even be able to generate some significant antiballistic missile usefulness. Lee -----Original Message----- From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Curtis Manges Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:41 AM To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? intersting, but will it really work? I thought I'd heard something about lasers (though good in space) being lousy as atmospheric weapons. I think it's because the beam begins to ionize the air in its path and causes diffusion. tell me if that sounds right. keep looking up Curtis From VM Mon Jun 10 10:25:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1268" "Sunday" "9" "June" "2002" "21:44:52" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "35" "Re: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1268 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5A1jBxf007518 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5A1jAgW007517 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5A1j2xf007424 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.da.191cd5d8 (4552) for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 39 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:44:52 EDT In a message dated 6/9/02 5:51:30 PM, lparker@cacaphony.net writes: >Bingo! > >Atmospheric ionization was one of the largest obstacles airborne lasers >had >to overcome. It caused a thermal bloom which then spread the beam and >significantly reduced energy on target. This has been mostly overcome, >but >at the speeds fighter aircraft typically move, they will outrun the >solution. > >So why are they looking at laser weapons on a fighter airframe if they >aren't going to be significantly better than missiles or guns? Because >Black >Horse is a fighter sized airframe and is designed to reach orbit...where >atmospheric interference is no longer a problem and the laser WILL >outperform missiles and guns. > >It makes one heck of a quick launch antisatellite weapon and would probably >even be able to generate some significant antiballistic missile usefulness. > >Lee I doubt this is for blackhorse. See they also know how to cancel out blooming from earth to oprbit, and even back when the f-15's were designed th ey we're designed to be laser compatable. The Navy has a significant research effort in it to replace their phalanx anti-antiship missle systems. Bessides why make a black Horse compatable laser, when you never funded Black Horse? Kelly From VM Mon Jun 10 10:25:20 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["453" "Sunday" "9" "June" "2002" "21:48:16" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "20" "RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 453 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5A2nVxf021345 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5A2nVvw021344 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5A2nUxf021339 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 19:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HFFF-0002K8-00; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 19:49:25 -0700 Message-ID: <004d01c21029$4919db10$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: , Subject: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 21:48:16 -0500 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of > KellySt@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:45 PM > To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > Subject: Re: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here > somewhere? > > > > Bessides why make a black Horse compatable laser, when you > never funded Black > Horse? Who says they didn't? Lee From VM Mon Jun 10 15:14:04 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["243" "Monday" "10" "June" "2002" "18:11:33" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "14" "Re: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 243 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5AMBnxf013441 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5AMBnAa013433 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5AMBgxf013039 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id z.125.11dc5d43 (25098) for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <125.11dc5d43.2a367e15@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 39 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:11:33 EDT In a message dated 6/9/02 10:49:42 PM, lparker@cacaphony.net writes: > >> Bessides why make a black Horse compatable laser, when you >> never funded Black >> Horse? > >Who says they didn't? > >Lee They didn't, if they had - you'ld know. From VM Mon Jun 10 15:59:32 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4476" "Monday" "10" "June" "2002" "15:58:15" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "69" "Fwd: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4476 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5AMwTxf010256 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5AMwS1k010255 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13601.mail.yahoo.com (web13601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.112]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with SMTP id g5AMwQxf010233 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020610225815.4985.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.101] by web13601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:58:15 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-263090134-1023749895=:2842" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 15:58:15 -0700 (PDT) --0-263090134-1023749895=:2842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hey, thanksfor the feedback. next question: aren't weapons illegal in space? stuff the ballot box for mining the moon! http://www.opinionsite.com/Default.asp keep looking up Curtis "L. Parker" wrote: From: "L. Parker" To: "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:49:16 -0500 Bingo! Atmospheric ionization was one of the largest obstacles airborne lasers had to overcome. It caused a thermal bloom which then spread the beam and significantly reduced energy on target. This has been mostly overcome, but at the speeds fighter aircraft typically move, they will outrun the solution. So why are they looking at laser weapons on a fighter airframe if they aren't going to be significantly better than missiles or guns? Because Black Horse is a fighter sized airframe and is designed to reach orbit...where atmospheric interference is no longer a problem and the laser WILL outperform missiles and guns. It makes one heck of a quick launch antisatellite weapon and would probably even be able to generate some significant antiballistic missile usefulness. Lee -----Original Message----- From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Curtis Manges Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:41 AM To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? intersting, but will it really work? I thought I'd heard something about lasers (though good in space) being lousy as atmospheric weapons. I think it's because the beam begins to ionize the air in its path and causes diffusion. tell me if that sounds right. keep looking up Curtis get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-263090134-1023749895=:2842 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

hey, thanksfor the feedback. next question: aren't weapons illegal in space?

stuff the ballot box for mining the moon!

http://www.opinionsite.com/Default.asp

keep looking up

Curtis

  "L. Parker" <lparker@cacaphony.net> wrote:

From: "L. Parker"
To: "'Curtis Manges'" ,
"'starship-design'"
Subject: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:49:16 -0500

Bingo!

Atmospheric ionization was one of the largest obstacles airborne lasers had
to overcome. It caused a thermal bloom which then spread the beam and
significantly reduced energy on target. This has been mostly overcome, but
at the speeds fighter aircraft typically move, they will outrun the
solution.

So why are they looking at laser weapons on a fighter airframe if they
aren't going to be significantly better than missiles or guns? Because Black
Horse is a fighter sized airframe and is designed to reach orbit...where
atmospheric interference is no longer a problem and the laser WILL
outperform missiles and guns.

It makes one heck of a quick launch antisatellite weapon and would probably
even be able to generate some significant antiballistic missile usefulness.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu
[mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Curtis Manges
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:41 AM
To: starship-design
Subject: Fwd: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here
somewhere?


intersting, but will it really work? I thought I'd heard something about
lasers (though good in space) being lousy as atmospheric weapons. I think
it's because the beam begins to ionize the air in its path and causes
diffusion. tell me if that sounds right.
keep looking up
Curtis


get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com



Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-263090134-1023749895=:2842-- From VM Mon Jun 10 16:05:33 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["609" "Monday" "10" "June" "2002" "18:02:36" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "15" "RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 609 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5AN3hxf014115 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5AN3hkU014112 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5AN3gxf014106 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HYCL-0001Uk-00; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:03:41 -0700 Message-ID: <005c01c210d2$e9fd8dc0$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <125.11dc5d43.2a367e15@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: , Subject: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:02:36 -0500 Ummm, there are many things that I know about that most people don't. As you might suspect, I'm not at liberty to talk about them. Black Horse isn't one of them. Black Horse as far as I and the rest of the world know, does not exist. But as I am sure you are aware, that is not the same thing as not existing. By inference, there were several operational systems designed to give the USAF a limited orbital strike capability until a fully operational system came along. Those systems are no longer around so I must assume they were replaced with something. Lee > > > They didn't, if they had - you'ld know. From VM Mon Jun 10 17:11:05 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1109" "Monday" "10" "June" "2002" "19:07:31" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "28" "RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1109 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5B08lxf014071 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5B08lAZ014070 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5B08kxf014064 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HZDA-0002q2-00; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: <006601c210db$fbb41300$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20020610225815.4985.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:07:31 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Curtis Manges Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 5:58 PM To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? hey, thanksfor the feedback. next question: aren't weapons illegal in space? Well they were the last time I checked.... Actually, I think the prohibition only applies to _nuclear_ weapons. Which an orbital laser equipped fighter makes useless unless launched in massive quantities. Russia and China would both be able to swamp such a fighter. India and Pakistan on the other hand would be much more easily handled. Black Horse was tasked to be able to deliver its "cargo" to a particular point in orbit within four hours. So it would be possible with some warning of imminent launch to have such a fighter nearby in orbit. The problem is that it is a low orbit and hence its "loiter time" would be very brief. It would require several spacecraft to maintain continuous coverage. Lots of possibilities here. Lee From VM Mon Jun 10 17:21:44 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["246" "Monday" "10" "June" "2002" "19:16:56" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "7" "RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 246 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5B0IBxf018360 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5B0IBZB018358 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5B0I5xf018344 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HZMH-0006y1-00; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:18:01 -0700 Message-ID: <006701c210dd$4c927a40$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <006601c210db$fbb41300$0201a8c0@broadsword> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'L. Parker'" , "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:16:56 -0500 Just a thought that I suddenly realized I had missed. The ABM Treaty only prohibits more than two Anti Ballistic Missile sites in the United States. It does NOT address orbital anti ballistic missile weapons that are not satellites. Lee Parker From VM Tue Jun 11 15:36:05 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2021" "Tuesday" "11" "June" "2002" "15:31:45" "-0700" "Curtis Manges" "clmanges@yahoo.com" nil "35" "Fwd: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2021 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5BMVqxf009852 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5BMVqHA009850 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13601.mail.yahoo.com (web13601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.112]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with SMTP id g5BMVnxf009649 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020611223145.2922.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.148.24.15] by web13601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:45 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-579136229-1023834705=:98022" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Curtis Manges From: Curtis Manges Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design Subject: Fwd: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:31:45 -0700 (PDT) --0-579136229-1023834705=:98022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii now, gentlemen, watch carefully as I fit this aerospace vehicle through this treaty loophole . . . "L. Parker" wrote: From: "L. Parker" To: "'L. Parker'" , "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:16:56 -0500 Just a thought that I suddenly realized I had missed. The ABM Treaty only prohibits more than two Anti Ballistic Missile sites in the United States. It does NOT address orbital anti ballistic missile weapons that are not satellites. Lee Parker get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-579136229-1023834705=:98022 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

now, gentlemen, watch carefully as I fit this aerospace vehicle through this treaty loophole . . .

  "L. Parker" <lparker@cacaphony.net> wrote:

From: "L. Parker"
To: "'L. Parker'" ,
"'Curtis Manges'" ,
"'starship-design'"
Subject: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:16:56 -0500

Just a thought that I suddenly realized I had missed.

The ABM Treaty only prohibits more than two Anti Ballistic Missile sites in
the United States. It does NOT address orbital anti ballistic missile
weapons that are not satellites.

Lee Parker


get the facts! visit www.worldnews.com



Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --0-579136229-1023834705=:98022-- From VM Tue Jun 11 15:51:36 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["3044" "Tuesday" "11" "June" "2002" "17:48:03" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "48" "RE: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere?" "^From:" nil nil "6" nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 3044 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5BMnGxf018063 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5BMnGxs018061 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5BMnFxf017984 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17HuRo-0005Cv-00; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:08 -0700 Message-ID: <009901c2119a$0bef1990$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20020611223145.2922.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Curtis Manges'" , "'starship-design'" Subject: RE: RE: RE: starship-design: Want to bet that Black Horse is in here somewhere? Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:48:03 -0500 Well, I must correct myself (since no one except Kelly called me on it). I was thinking that "that which is not explicitly forbidden must be allowed". Unfortunately, my memory of the ABM Treaty dates from when it was signed. I just went back to look at it and it turns out that they DID explicitly forbid everything except the two ground based sites. Here is a brief synopsis: IV. THE ABM TREATY AND BALLISTIC MISSILE DEFENSE Background The ABM Treaty was a product of the Cold War, bipolarity, and the state of technology at that time. The United States and Soviet Union had both deployed significant strategic nuclear forces that increasingly came to rely on long-range ballistic missiles. In an attempt to forestall a further Soviet increase in the number of such systems, the United States sought and obtained from the Soviet Union in 1972 an interim agreement for the limitation of "strategic offensive arms" (Interim Agreement), which essentially froze the number of strategic ballistic missile launchers of the two sides at existing levels. At the same time, the two parties entered into a formal treaty (the ABM Treaty) on the limitation of "antiballistic missile systems," or systems designed to defend against strategic ballistic missiles. The ABM Treaty did not ban all antiballistic missile systems. It permitted the research, development, and limited deployment of ground-based ABM systems. As signed in 1972, the two sides were permitted two operational ABM sites, each with 100 ABM launchers and 100 ABM interceptor missiles, with associated radar, storage, and test facilities. A 1974 amendment reduced the number of permitted operational ABM sites to one per side. The deployments were limited to ground-based ABM systems, which were the technological approach of the time and included fixed ground-based launchers, ground-launched interceptor missiles, and associated ground-based radars. Deployment of ABM systems based on "other physical principles" and including constituent parts capable of substituting for these ground-based ABM components was to be subject to discussion and agreement by the parties. Development, testing, or deployment of sea-, air-, or space-based, or mobile land-based systems were all banned. [37] The ABM Treaty thus enshrined as strategic doctrine the principle of deterrence through threat of retaliation. Since neither side was free to deploy unlimited defenses against the strategic ballistic missiles of the other, each nation sought to deter any outright attack by the other through its ability to threaten overwhelming retaliation against an attack with its own nuclear-armed strategic ballistic missiles. The Interim Agreement and the ABM Treaty were bilateral agreements applicable only to U.S. and Soviet strategic ballistic missiles and ABM systems. While the Soviets were worried about U.K. and French strategic nuclear forces, and both the Soviet Union and the United States had reason to be concerned about Chinese nuclear forces, these forces were not limited by either agreement. From VM Sun Jun 30 10:52:38 2002 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["6082" "Sunday" "30" "June" "2002" "09:23:40" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "138" "starship-design: Starbooster, etc." "^From:" nil nil "6" nil "starship-design: Starbooster, etc." nil nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 6082 Return-Path: Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5UEOubw022531 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5UEOucs022530 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5UEOtbw022525 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user121.net241.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([64.45.208.121] helo=broadsword) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17OfdG-0003JH-00 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 07:24:54 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c22041$bbe89460$0201a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C22017.D3128C60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design List \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Starbooster, etc. Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:23:40 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C22017.D3128C60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0027_01C22017.D3128C60" ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C22017.D3128C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New SBIR contract award by USAF for reusable space vehicle research, check this URL: http://www.starbooster.com/ Lee ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C22017.D3128C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New SBIR = contract award by=20 USAF for reusable space vehicle research, check this = URL:
 
http://www.starbooster.com/
 
Lee
------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C22017.D3128C60-- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C22017.D3128C60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Notebook.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <250052214@30062002-109a> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/7QSyUGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNA+kAAAAAAHgAAwAAAEgA SAAAAAADBgJS//f/9wMPAlsDRwUoA/wAAgAAAEgASAAAAAAC2AIoAAEAAABkAAAAAQADAwMAAAAB Jw8AAQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAgAGQGQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA4 QklNA+0AAAAAABAASAAAAAEAAQBIAAAAAQABOEJJTQPzAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAA4QklNBAoAAAAA AAEAADhCSU0nEAAAAAAACgABAAAAAAAAAAI4QklNA/UAAAAAAEgAL2ZmAAEAbGZmAAYAAAAAAAEA L2ZmAAEAoZmaAAYAAAAAAAEAMgAAAAEAWgAAAAYAAAAAAAEANQAAAAEALQAAAAYAAAAAAAE4QklN A/gAAAAAAHAAAP////////////////////////////8D6AAAAAD///////////////////////// ////A+gAAAAA/////////////////////////////wPoAAAAAP////////////////////////// //8D6AAAOEJJTQQAAAAAAAACAAA4QklNBAIAAAAAAAIAADhCSU0ECAAAAAAAEAAAAAEAAAJAAAAC QAAAAAA4QklNBAkAAAAAAqIAAAABAAAAgAAAAAIAAAGAAAADAAAAAoYAGAAB/9j/4AAQSkZJRgAB AgEASABIAAD//gAnRmlsZSB3cml0dGVuIGJ5IEFkb2JlIFBob3Rvc2hvcKggNC4wAP/uAA5BZG9i ZQBkgAAAAAH/2wCEAAwICAgJCAwJCQwRCwoLERUPDAwPFRgTExUTExgRDAwMDAwMEQwMDAwMDAwM DAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwBDQsLDQ4NEA4OEBQODg4UFA4ODg4UEQwMDAwMEREMDAwMDAwR DAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDP/AABEIAAIAgAMBIgACEQEDEQH/3QAEAAj/xAE/ AAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwgJCgsBAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAEAAgMEBQYHCAkK CxAAAQQBAwIEAgUHBggFAwwzAQACEQMEIRIxBUFRYRMicYEyBhSRobFCIyQVUsFiMzRygtFDByWS U/Dh8WNzNRaisoMmRJNUZEXCo3Q2F9JV4mXys4TD03Xj80YnlKSFtJXE1OT0pbXF1eX1VmZ2hpam tsbW5vY3R1dnd4eXp7fH1+f3EQACAgECBAQDBAUGBwcGBTUBAAIRAyExEgRBUWFxIhMFMoGRFKGx QiPBUtHwMyRi4XKCkkNTFWNzNPElBhaisoMHJjXC0kSTVKMXZEVVNnRl4vKzhMPTdePzRpSkhbSV xNTk9KW1xdXl9VZmdoaWprbG1ub2JzdHV2d3h5ent8f/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APROif0Kv6X81T9L j+ar/m/5K0F8rJJIfqlJfKySKn6pSXyskkp+qUl8rJJKfqlJfKySSn6pSXyskkp+qUl8rJJKfqlJ fKySSn//2ThCSU0EBgAAAAAABwABAAAAAQEA//4AJ0ZpbGUgd3JpdHRlbiBieSBBZG9iZSBQaG90 b3Nob3CoIDQuMAD/7gAOQWRvYmUAZIAAAAAB/9sAhAAMCAgNCQ0VDAwVGhQQFBogGxoaGyAiFxcX FxciEQwMDAwMDBEMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMAQ0NDREOERsRERsUDg4OFBQO Dg4OFBEMDAwMDBERDAwMDAwMEQwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAz/wAARCAAYBaAD ASIAAhEBAxEB/90ABABa/8QBPwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBgcICQoLAQABBQEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAABAAIDBAUGBwgJCgsQAAEEAQMCBAIFBwYIBQMMMwEAAhEDBCESMQVBUWETInGBMgYU kaGxQiMkFVLBYjM0coLRQwclklPw4fFjczUWorKDJkSTVGRFwqN0NhfSVeJl8rOEw9N14/NGJ5Sk hbSVxNTk9KW1xdXl9VZmdoaWprbG1ub2N0dXZ3eHl6e3x9fn9xEAAgIBAgQEAwQFBgcHBgU1AQAC EQMhMRIEQVFhcSITBTKBkRShsUIjwVLR8DMkYuFygpJDUxVjczTxJQYWorKDByY1wtJEk1SjF2RF VTZ0ZeLys4TD03Xj80aUpIW0lcTU5PSltcXV5fVWZnaGlqa2xtbm9ic3R1dnd4eXp7fH/9oADAMB AAIRAxEAPwCv0T+n4/8AxrP+qavW15J0U/r+P/xrP+qavWg8eKElsWSHZfXWYe4A+ZUMjIFTJBE/ Fc1kXbg63mJP+amk0uesGqdc19Sup2ZrLmWGQxwLR4B35v8A0V0qKlJJJIqUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJK UkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSS SSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJ KUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpS SSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJ JKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkp SSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJJJKUkkkkpSSSSSlJJ JJKUkkkkpSSSSSn/0J9G6oKn04zKKXOdYA6x7d1kOP8Ag/3Hs/MXY/sOl/0hYfCT/wCQavnZJArQ /S1HTXVN21+weYa7/vqzcroeQ+Q3XcYOn/mbF89pIaJfpboXRK+k1uDQPUsILyONPotZ/JatRfKq SSX6qSXyqkip+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJ KfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp +qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6 qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqp JfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl 8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXy qkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKq SSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJ KfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp +qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6 qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn6qSXyqkkp+qkl8qpJKfqpJfKqSSn/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C22017.D3128C60--