Long = ago we were=20 discussing crew complements and structure for an Explorer class vessel = and I=20 made the suggestion that we should perhaps look to submarines for clues = on the=20 endurance of such a crew and to aircraft carriers for the rest. We all = agreed=20 that even though these weren't terribly good analogies, it seems these = are the=20 closest we have.

After = watching a=20 program last month on carrier battle group operations, I think our = problem is=20 even worse than I thought. Although I knew that in many ways a carrier = was=20 self-sufficient, it seems that in many others it is not. I was not aware = of just=20 how much resupply goes on at sea. An aircraft carrier, for all its size = leaves=20 port stuffed to the bulkheads with consumable supplies which _get this_ = all have=20 to be replaced while underway!

We are = talking a six=20 month deployment here...not six years or even sixty years. I am = beginning to=20 have serious doubts about slow ships (0.3c or less). I no longer believe = it is=20 possible to stuff enough food onboard for an Explorer class vessel. So = we are=20 back to growing it enroute. Or a MUCH faster vessel.

Warp = Drive=20 When?

Lee
Several recent=20 conversations started me thinking about plasma engines again. = I just got=20 around to doing a new search on VASIMR this morning. It seems that Rice = has put=20 a great site up on it with lots of information. If anybody wants to = learn about=20 a REAL plasma engine that is currently test firing (not just a drawing=20 on paper) the link is:

http://spacsun.rice.edu/aspl/<= /SPAN>

The = current design (=20 ground test unit) is a 10 MW unit and is capable of an ISP up to 10^22 = n(m^-3).=20 They have posted a nice chart showing the expected upgrade path to a 100 = MW=20 device by 2018. There is also a great graphic of a Mars Pathfinder=20 vehicle.

There = are two key=20 things about this engine, first it is capable of variable thrust and = specific=20 impulse at full power, which makes it ideal for multi-role missions. = Second, it=20 is relatively efficient at 60% efficiency. Check the site=20 out.

Lee
__________________________________________
"They make a desert = and call it=20 peace."
&nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 Tacitus

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF64BC.519BD6A0-- From VM Sun Jan 23 12:24:11 2000 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["3023" "Saturday" "22" "January" "2000" "09:44:27" "-0600" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "79" "starship-design: Old News" "^From:" nil nil "1" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 3023 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03576 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03571 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadsword (p443.gnt.com [204.49.91.59]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA16081 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:44:45 -0600 Message-ID: <002801bf64ef\$97ca6b90\$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF64BD.4D2FFB90" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Old News Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:44:27 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF64BD.4D2FFB90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Untitled StationeryYear old news.... Several topics of discussion in the last couple of days are presented here in brief form by NASA, this may help to clear up some of the misunderstandings about what is and is not possible as well how they may actually work. http://spacescience.nasa.gov/osstech/1quarter99.htm Particularly interesting is the development of the device that was purportedly using phosphorous to propel a vehicle...you were VERY close to the right idea! Lee __________________________________________ "They make a desert and call it peace." Tacitus ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF64BD.4D2FFB90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Stationery
Year = old=20 news....

Several topics of=20 discussion in the last couple of days are presented here in brief form = by NASA,=20 this may help to clear up some of the misunderstandings about what is = and is not=20 possible as well how they may actually work.

http://space= science.nasa.gov/osstech/1quarter99.htm

Particularly=20 interesting is the development of the device that was purportedly using=20 phosphorous to propel a vehicle...you were VERY close to the right=20 idea!

Lee
__________________________________________
"They make a desert = and call it=20 peace."
&nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 Tacitus

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF64BD.4D2FFB90-- From VM Sun Jan 23 12:24:11 2000 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4811" "Saturday" "22" "January" "2000" "09:50:27" "-0600" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "132" "starship-design: Still Old News, But Getting Warmer..." "^From:" nil nil "1" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4811 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04006 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04001 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadsword (p443.gnt.com [204.49.91.59]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA16952 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:50:42 -0600 Message-ID: <002f01bf64f0\$6d20d4a0\$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF64BE.228664A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Still Old News, But Getting Warmer... Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:50:27 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF64BE.228664A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Untitled StationeryThis is from the same site as the previous thread "Old News" but one quarter more recent: http://spacescience.nasa.gov/osstech/jan-mar99.htm Of particular interest is the topic below: CONFERENCE ON ENABLING TECHNOLOGY AND REQUIRED SCIENTIFIC DEVELOPMENTS FOR INTERSTELLAR MISSIONS Building on the success of the breakthrough propulsion sessions at the 1999 Space Technology and Applications International Forum (STAIF), held February 1-4, 1999 in Albuquerque, NM, a conference on interstellar technology and science is planned for STAIF-2000. Session chairs include Les Johnson (MSFC), Sarah A. Gavit (JPL), Marc Millis (GRC), and others. The following sessions are planned within this conference: 1.. Interstellar Mission Concepts 2.. Propulsion Technologies for Interstellar Precursor Missions 3.. Propulsion Technologies for Interstellar Flyby and Rendezvous Missions 4.. Mission Benefits of Breakthrough Propulsion Physics 5.. Candidate Space Experiments to Test Breakthrough Propulsion Physics 6.. Research Progress toward Breakthrough Propulsion Physics 7.. Computational Tools to Address Problems of Breakthrough Propulsion Physics For further information contact: Marc G. Millis, NASA GRC (216-977-7535) Lee __________________________________________ "They make a desert and call it peace." Tacitus ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF64BE.228664A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Stationery

This is = from the same=20 site as the previous thread "Old News" but one quarter more=20 recent:

http://spaces= cience.nasa.gov/osstech/jan-mar99.htm

Of = particular interest=20 is the topic below:

CONFERENCE ON ENABLING TECHNOLOGY = AND=20 REQUIRED SCIENTIFIC DEVELOPMENTS FOR INTERSTELLAR MISSIONS=20 Building on the success of = the=20 breakthrough propulsion sessions at the 1999 Space Technology and = Applications=20 International Forum (STAIF), held February 1-4, 1999 in Albuquerque, NM, = a=20 conference on interstellar technology and science is planned for = STAIF-2000.=20 Session chairs include Les Johnson (MSFC), Sarah A. Gavit (JPL), Marc = Millis=20 (GRC), and others. The following sessions are planned within this = conference:=20

1. Interstellar Mission Concepts

2. Propulsion Technologies for = Interstellar Precursor=20 Missions

3. Propulsion Technologies for = Interstellar Flyby and=20 Rendezvous Missions

4. Mission Benefits of Breakthrough = Propulsion=20 Physics

5. Candidate Space Experiments to Test = Breakthrough=20 Propulsion Physics

6. Research Progress toward Breakthrough = Propulsion=20 Physics

7. Computational Tools to Address = Problems of=20 Breakthrough Propulsion Physics

For further information contact: Marc G. = Millis, NASA=20 GRC (216-977-7535)

Lee

__________________________________________
"They make a desert = and call it=20 peace."
&nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 Tacitus

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BF64BE.228664A0-- From VM Sun Jan 23 12:24:11 2000 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2214" "Saturday" "22" "January" "2000" "09:53:48" "-0600" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "59" "starship-design: Shades of Galaxy Quest" "^From:" nil nil "1" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2214 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04872 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04867 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadsword (p443.gnt.com [204.49.91.59]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA17412 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:54:03 -0600 Message-ID: <003601bf64f0\$e4fb0d10\$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF64BE.9A609D10" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design \(E-mail\)" Subject: starship-design: Shades of Galaxy Quest Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:53:48 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF64BE.9A609D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Untitled StationeryJust when you thought science fiction movies had hit a new low...NASA goes and turns it into science...or the scientific method at least. http://spacescience.nasa.gov/osstech/horizon2.htm#Paradigms Lee __________________________________________ "They make a desert and call it peace." Tacitus ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF64BE.9A609D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Stationery
Just = when you=20 thought science fiction movies had hit a new low...NASA goes and turns = it into=20 science...or the scientific method at least.