From VM Tue Jul 6 11:44:52 1999 X-VM-Summary-Format: "%n %*%a %-17.17F %-3.3m %2d %4l/%-5c %I\"%s\"\n" X-VM-Labels: nil X-VM-VHeader: ("Resent-" "From:" "Sender:" "To:" "Apparently-To:" "Cc:" "Subject:" "Date:") nil X-VM-Last-Modified: (14214 24146 720387) X-VM-IMAP-Retrieved: nil X-VM-POP-Retrieved: nil X-VM-Bookmark: 1 Content-Length: 626 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["626" "Sunday" "4" "July" "1999" "12:54:53" "-0500" "L. Clayton Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "22" "starship-design: FW: Seti@Home Web Site Hacked (Off-topic)" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: FW: Seti@Home Web Site Hacked (Off-topic)" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 626 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07879 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07869 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claymore (p233.gnt.com [204.49.89.233]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA00278 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Clayton Parker" From: "L. Clayton Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design" Subject: starship-design: FW: Seti@Home Web Site Hacked (Off-topic) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:54:53 -0500 Sorry this is on a tangent, but... Lee -----Original Message----- From: owner-setiathome@klx.com [mailto:owner-setiathome@klx.com]On Behalf Of Mr Anthony Chippendale Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 11:56 AM To: ufo-net@clara.net Subject: Seti@Home Web Site Hacked The Seti@Home web site at: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ has been hacked!! Take a look before it is fixed, it is so funny!!!! Anthony. == Unsubscribe instructions: http://www.talkspace.net/mlists/setiathome.html This list sponsored by talkspace.net: building space communities online. Mailing list services provided by klx.communications -- www.klx.com From VM Wed Jul 7 17:20:59 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4590" "Wednesday" "7" "July" "1999" "20:18:34" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "111" "starship-design: Fwd: Interstellar Planets Could Support Life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4590 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23961 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23952 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id nQZMa09230 (305); Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f3e731c9.24b5485a_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, bbbark@surfree.com, jcavelos@empire.net, starchld@io.com, Msruff@aol.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, rddesign@wolfenet.com, RICKJ@btio.com, indy@the-line.com Subject: starship-design: Fwd: Interstellar Planets Could Support Life Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:18:34 EDT --part1_f3e731c9.24b5485a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A weird new relm for SF stories. Or deep space exploration. Kelly --part1_f3e731c9.24b5485a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (rly-yg01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.1]) by air-yg02.mx.aol.com (v59.55) with SMTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:26:12 -0400 Received: from bastion.mail.sprint.com (bastion3.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.131]) by rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (vx) with SMTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:26:03 -0400 Received: from [160.41.28.141] by bastion3.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP for kellyst@aol.com; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA27474 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:26:00 -0500 (CDT) From: kelly g starks Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA17253 for kellyst@aol.com; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:25:59 -0500 (CDT) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:25:52 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: Interstellar Planets Could Support Life TO: kellyst@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-03004d7c-00000001" --openmail-part-03004d7c-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/07/03a.html Spaceviews Interstellar Planets Could Support Life =20 Published: 1999 July 3 =20 9:53 am ET (1353 UT) Earth-sized planets ejected early in the history of solar systems could support life even in the cold depths of interstellar space, a Caltech scientist has found. In a paper published in the July 1 issue of the journal Nature, David Stevenson of Caltech found that such "interstellar planets" could retain enough heat to support conditions conducive to the formation of life. Simulations of the formation of the solar system show that up to ten planets the size of the Earth could have formed, but either collided with Jupiter or were ejected from the solar system during close approaches to the giant planet. These planets would normally cool as they moved far away from the Sun or any other star, but a dense hydrogen atmosphere retained from their formation could act as an insulating blanket, retaining the heat generated by the radioactive decay of elements in the interior of the planet. This could create Earth-like temperatures on the surface of the planet, even in the absence of an outside heat source. The planet could have liquid water oceans, but would have a surface pressure similar to that at the bottom of the Earth's oceans. If these planets have geothermal-like heat sources, the energy could be enough to allow the formation of some small, simple life forms. How complex the life could be is an open question, Stevenson believes. "I don't think anyone knows what is required to drive biological evolution from simple to very complex systems." However, other research, including that by Caltech colleagues Eric Gaidos and Joseph Kirschvink, suggests that geothermal energy sources may not be sufficient to generate anything more than the simplest life forms. Efforts to locate these planets, which may be commonplace if other solar systems formed like our own, would require advanced detection techniques, because of the limited amount of light they emit. Steven suggested looking for occultations, when the light from a background star is temporarily dimmed by the passage of one of these planets. "I'm not saying that these objects have life," Stevenson said. "All I'm saying is that, among the places you might want to consider for sustainable life, you might eventually want to look at these objects. They could be the most common location for life in the universe." --openmail-part-03004d7c-00000001-- --part1_f3e731c9.24b5485a_boundary-- From VM Wed Jul 7 17:20:59 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["9344" "Wednesday" "7" "July" "1999" "20:18:40" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "178" "starship-design: Fwd: The Story of a Tragedy That Was Not to Be" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 9344 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24114 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24103 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id nARMa27393 (305); Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_db61e94b.24b54860_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, bbbark@surfree.com, Kryswalker@aol.com, jcavelos@empire.net, starchld@io.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, rddesign@wolfenet.com, RICKJ@btio.com, indy@the-line.com, Shealiak@XS4ALL.nl, Msruff@aol.com Subject: starship-design: Fwd: The Story of a Tragedy That Was Not to Be Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:18:40 EDT --part1_db61e94b.24b54860_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Plans if the first Moon landing had a worst case failure. Kelly --part1_db61e94b.24b54860_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg03.mx.aol.com (v59.55) with SMTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:36:11 -0400 Received: from bastion1-ext.mail.sprint.com (bastion.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.129]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (vx) with SMTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:36:00 -0400 Received: from [160.41.28.141] by bastion1.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:35:59 -0500 Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:35:58 -0500 Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA07077; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:35:57 -0500 (CDT) From: kelly g starks Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA20244; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:35:56 -0500 (CDT) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:35:52 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: The Story of a Tragedy That Was Not to Be TO: indy@the-line.com, kellyst@AOL.COM, kryswalker@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-03006c09-00000001" --openmail-part-03006c09-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/ASECTION/t000060701.html Wednesday, July 7, 1999 LATIMES INTERNATIONAL OUTLOOK =20 The Story of a Tragedy That Was Not to Be =20 By JIM MANN =20 WASHINGTON--This column is about America's walk on the moon and the untold story of one of the most poignant presidential speeches in American history--a speech that never had to be delivered. =20 In two weeks, this country will celebrate the 30th anniversary of the day when Neil Armstrong and Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin Jr. stepped onto the surface of the moon. =20 Over the past three decades, many of the details of that epic trip have been told over and over again in books and movies. And so, naturally, we now take it as a given that the trip was destined to be a success--that the American astronauts, after landing on the moon, would return home safely. =20 But it didn't seem so inevitable at the time. It turns out that officials at the White House and NASA quietly made contingency plans for what President Richard Nixon would do if Armstrong and Aldrin got stuck on the moon and were doomed to die there. =20 There was even a euphemism for how such a tragedy would end. The stranded astronauts would "close down communications" with Mission Control in Houston and be left in silence, either to die slowly or, perhaps, to commit suicide. =20 Nixon's speech was to end with these haunting words, in effect a tribute to Armstrong and Aldrin: "For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind." =20 I came across the remarkable documentary evidence of this lugubrious planning a couple of years ago, while doing research in the National Archives. =20 There, sitting in the files from the Nixon administration, was a memo titled: "In Event of Moon Disaster." It laid out a precise scenario for what Nixon should do if the astronauts' lunar vehicle couldn't get back up off the moon into lunar orbit to hook up with the command module. =20 According to the memo, once it was clear that Armstrong and Aldrin could not come home, Nixon was to call the "widows-to-be" to express condolences. He was then to deliver a speech to the nation. =20 Finally, at the point when NASA would cut off radio communications with the moon and leave the astronauts alone to die, a clergyman was to commend their souls to "the deepest of the deep," in the fashion of a burial at sea. =20 The planning memo was drafted for Nixon's chief of staff, H.R. Haldeman, by Nixon's speech writer, William Safire, now a columnist for the New York Times. At the same time, Safire drafted the short speech Nixon was to give. =20 Years ago, in a memoir about his time in the Nixon White House, Safire briefly alluded to this secret planning. =20 "On June 13, Frank Borman--an astronaut the president liked and whom NASA had assigned to be our liaison--called me to say, 'You want to be thinking of some alternative posture for the president in the event of mishaps on Apollo XI.' When I didn't react promptly, Borman moved off the formal language--'like what to do for the widows.' " =20 Safire complied. His memo and the speech he drafted for Nixon were retained in Nixon's White House files and now sit in the National Archives. Here is the full text of this extraordinary speech: =20 Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace. =20 These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice. =20 These two men are laying down their lives in mankind's most noble goal: the search for truth and understanding. =20 They will be mourned by their families and friends; they will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her sons into the unknown. =20 In their exploration, they stirred the people of the world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the brotherhood of man. =20 In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but our heroes are epic men of flesh and blood. =20 Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man's search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts. =20 For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind. =20 The secret preparations serve as a reminder of just how risky was the voyage to the moon. Confident of American technology, officials at NASA and the White House still left nothing to chance. They secretly feared something could go terribly wrong. =20 Yet these events are, in their way, also a testament to hope. We may prepare for tragedy, but our worst nightmares rarely happen. Three decades ago on July 20, Armstrong and Aldrin walked on the rubble of the moon and then came home again. Nixon's undelivered speech was thrown into a file and happily forgotten. =20 * * * Jim Mann's column appears in this space every Wednesday. =20 Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved =20 --openmail-part-03006c09-00000001-- --part1_db61e94b.24b54860_boundary-- From VM Fri Jul 9 15:23:32 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["243" "Friday" "9" "July" "1999" "18:21:07" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "14" "starship-design: Re: RE: Interstellar Planets Could Support Life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 243 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14875 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14861 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id cSEDa06967 (4419); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5226735f.24b7cfd3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 54 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, KellySt@aol.com, moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, bbbark@surfree.com, jcavelos@empire.net, starchld@io.com, Msruff@aol.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, rddesign@wolfenet.com, RICKJ@btio.com, indy@the-line.com Subject: starship-design: Re: RE: Interstellar Planets Could Support Life Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:21:07 EDT In a message dated 7/7/99 10:58:49 PM, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com writes: >I can just see some Hollywood idiot reading this and penning a new script > >for a pilot for the Sci Fi Channel entitled: "Space 1999 BC" > > > >;) MJ BC? Kelly From VM Fri Jul 9 15:42:21 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["373" "Friday" "9" "July" "1999" "18:39:57" "-0400" "Curtis L. Manges" "clmanges@worldnet.att.net" nil "8" "starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 373 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22269 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22256 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.97.236]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990709224054.SDCG4954@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:40:54 +0000 Message-ID: <37867A3D.B2449BA9@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Curtis L. Manges" From: "Curtis L. Manges" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:39:57 -0400 I can't help wondering: what kind of life would develop or evolve in near-total darkness? I guess we can find examples in our own ocean depths, but what would it look like on land? Photosynthesis being out of the question, the flora would certainly take a much different turn from what we're familiar with, and by necessity, the fauna would also. Interesting . . . Curtis From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["906" "Saturday" "10" "July" "1999" "15:35:02" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "20" "Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 906 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10165 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10160 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zGRLa15847 (3889) for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d612d8b.24b8fa66@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 54 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:35:02 EDT In a message dated 7/9/99 5:41:46 PM, clmanges@worldnet.att.net writes: >I can't help wondering: what kind of life would develop or evolve in >near-total darkness? I guess we can find examples in our own ocean >depths, but what would it look like on land? Photosynthesis being out of >the question, the flora would certainly take a much different turn from >what we're familiar with, and by necessity, the fauna would also. >Interesting . . . > >Curtis I was wondering about that. They've found that the temp of planets like Earth and Venus are much moredetermined by the temperature of its core, and the nature of its crust. So the surface temp could be similar. Life forms could be based of cemosynthasis like the stuff living near ocean bottom volcanic vents. Is anything down there a oxegen producer? Sounds like a lot of the evolution could be similar. Fish, legged animals, etc. Kelly From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["645" "Saturday" "10" "July" "1999" "14:58:06" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "16" "Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 645 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21659 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21653 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin40.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.40]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21056 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3787B3DE.548BF48E@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6d612d8b.24b8fa66@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:58:06 -0600 > > I was wondering about that. They've found that the temp of planets like > Earth and Venus are much moredetermined by the temperature of its core, and > the nature of its crust. So the surface temp could be similar. Life forms > could be based of cemosynthasis like the stuff living near ocean bottom > volcanic vents. Is anything down there a oxegen producer? Sounds like a lot > of the evolution could be similar. Fish, legged animals, etc. > > Kelly Photosynthesis is the only known oxygen producing reaction in life that I know about. Thermal reactions don't supply a lot of surplus energy however. That is the key factor. Ben From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1947" "Saturday" "10" "July" "1999" "17:49:42" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "50" "starship-design: Re: SpaceShip Ideas" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: Re: SpaceShip Ideas" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1947 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29159 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29150 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id eOUKa05091 (4458); Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 54 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: chris@vela.astro.ucla.edu, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Re: SpaceShip Ideas Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:49:42 EDT In a message dated 7/10/99 1:50:59 PM, chris@vela.astro.ucla.edu writes: >Dear Kelly, > > You have some fascinating proposal for interstellar spacecraft >on the LIT webpage. Might I suggest one idea which you may have >considered already for its feasibility? > > It seems the difficulty is not in leaving the Sol system since >propulsion could be provided externally (eg. pellets, lasers) but >in Decelerating. My risky proposal is the following: > >Before arriving, half of ship splits off and goes ahead. This half >then, using very precise thrusting, loops around the destination >star (or one of its planets) and flies back in the opposite direction. Your going too fast to use the gravity of a normal star to turn you around. >Not a trivial maneuver by any means, but given the successes of the >Voyager, etc. missions, not inconceivable. This "Front" part of the >ship is actually equipped with pellet gun which fires pellets >(which comprise most of its mass) back to the main ship. Moment >transfer of the pellets (accomplished very carefully) slows down the main >ship. If everything could be done "gently" these massive pellets >could actually composed of material which you would bring along >on the journey anyway, (food & water supplies) so they don't add mass. Catching pellats this way could help a lot, but since they'ld being coming straigh at you at 3/4ths of light speed that would be nearly impossible. > > Obviously the faster you go the more difficult this idea >becomes. However I believe I heard (but have not calculated) >that at much above 0.1 c, background radiation starts to get >blueshifted into dangerous xrays, etc. So you might want a slow >voyage anyway... A slow ship takes too long to be practical, it would need to be far larger and heavier. > >-chris > Thanks for the suggests though. Not quiet right yet, but new ideas are always worth considering. Kelly From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1115" "Saturday" "10" "July" "1999" "19:41:27" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "24" "starship-design: Split space ship design." "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: Split space ship design." nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1115 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01418 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01412 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin58.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.58]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA04775 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3787F647.280C957A@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Split space ship design. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:41:27 -0600 S >> Before arriving, half of ship splits off and goes ahead. This half >> then, using very precise thrusting, loops around the destination >> star (or one of its planets) and flies back in the opposite direction. > > Your going too fast to use the gravity of a normal star to turn you around. > > >Not a trivial maneuver by any means, but given the successes of the > >Voyager, etc. missions, not inconceivable. This "Front" part of the > >ship is actually equipped with pellet gun which fires pellets > >(which comprise most of its mass) back to the main ship. Moment > >transfer of the pellets (accomplished very carefully) slows down the main > >ship. If everything could be done "gently" these massive pellets > >could actually composed of material which you would bring along > >on the journey anyway, (food & water supplies) so they don't add mass. > > Catching pellats this way could help a lot, but since they'ld being coming > straigh at you at 3/4ths of light speed that would be nearly impossible. > So why split the ship? Just send a nice slow unmanned ship to do the pellet throwing. Ben. From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil t nil nil nil nil] ["2094" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "01:05:45" "-0300" "Marcos Lyra" "mcbl@crt.sol.com.br" "<37881819.6C019804@crt.sol.com.br>" "50" "starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2094 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20351 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sims.sol.com.br (mail.sol.com.br [200.230.143.253]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20338 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crt.sol.com.br (ch01m5.crt.sol.com.br) by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEO00DZQTQWEY@sims.sol.com.br> for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:59:29 -0300 (EST) Message-id: <37881819.6C019804@crt.sol.com.br> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_9ULMdvV0UNH4jBtEBaewfg)" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Marcos Lyra From: Marcos Lyra Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:05:45 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_9ULMdvV0UNH4jBtEBaewfg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit unsubscribe starship-design --Boundary_(ID_9ULMdvV0UNH4jBtEBaewfg) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEM00455KFN5E@sims.sol.com.br> for mcbl-crt@sims-ms-daemon; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:43:03 -0300 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22269 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22256 for ; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.97.236]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990709224054.SDCG4954@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:40:54 +0000 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:39:57 -0400 From: "Curtis L. Manges" Subject: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Reply-to: "Curtis L. Manges" Message-id: <37867A3D.B2449BA9@worldnet.att.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk X-Accept-Language: en I can't help wondering: what kind of life would develop or evolve in near-total darkness? I guess we can find examples in our own ocean depths, but what would it look like on land? Photosynthesis being out of the question, the flora would certainly take a much different turn from what we're familiar with, and by necessity, the fauna would also. Interesting . . . Curtis --Boundary_(ID_9ULMdvV0UNH4jBtEBaewfg)-- From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["24" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "01:13:34" "-0300" "Marcos Lyra" "mcbl@crt.sol.com.br" nil "3" "starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 24 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21494 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sims.sol.com.br (mail.sol.com.br [200.230.143.253]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21488 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crt.sol.com.br (ch01m5.crt.sol.com.br) by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEO00ER7U40IR@sims.sol.com.br> for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:07:19 -0300 (EST) Message-id: <378819EE.E01E2913@crt.sol.com.br> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Marcos Lyra From: Marcos Lyra Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: unsubscribe starship-design Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:13:34 -0300 unsub starship-design From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["23" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "01:08:04" "-0300" "Marcos Lyra" "mcbl@crt.sol.com.br" nil "2" "starship-design: (no subject)" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: (no subject)" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 23 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24478 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sims.sol.com.br (mail.sol.com.br [200.230.143.253]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24457 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crt.sol.com.br (ch01m5.crt.sol.com.br) by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEO00JO2V6OBJ@sims.sol.com.br> for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:30:31 -0300 (EST) Message-id: <378818A4.AB2C8291@crt.sol.com.br> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Marcos Lyra From: Marcos Lyra Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: (no subject) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:08:04 -0300 unsub starship-design From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["24" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "01:53:30" "-0300" "Marcos C. B. Lyra" "mcbl@crt.sol.com.br" nil "3" "starship-design: unsub starship-design" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: unsub starship-design" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 24 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26599 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sims.sol.com.br (mail.sol.com.br [200.230.143.253]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26567 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crt.sol.com.br (ch01m5.crt.sol.com.br) by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEO00KEZVZ8RV@sims.sol.com.br> for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:47:35 -0300 (EST) Message-id: <3788234A.962B72FA@crt.sol.com.br> Organization: UFPR MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marcos C. B. Lyra" From: "Marcos C. B. Lyra" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: unsub starship-design Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:53:30 -0300 unsub starship-design From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["31" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "01:52:59" "-0300" "Marcos C. B. Lyra" "mcbl@crt.sol.com.br" nil "4" "starship-design: unsub starship-design" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: unsub starship-design" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 31 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26579 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sims.sol.com.br (mail.sol.com.br [200.230.143.253]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26564 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crt.sol.com.br (ch01m5.crt.sol.com.br) by sims.sol.com.br (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5) with ESMTP id <0FEO00JGXVYXBJ@sims.sol.com.br> for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:47:30 -0300 (EST) Message-id: <3788232B.EC5D76C3@crt.sol.com.br> Organization: UFPR MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Marcos C. B. Lyra" From: "Marcos C. B. Lyra" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: unsub starship-design Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:52:59 -0300 unsubscribe straship-design From VM Mon Jul 12 10:08:23 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["841" "Sunday" "11" "July" "1999" "12:38:29" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "24" "Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 841 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12882 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12877 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zMUGa05145 (3878) for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <522c946f.24ba2285@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 54 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: re: interstellar planets supporting life Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:38:29 EDT In a message dated 7/10/99 3:54:35 PM, bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca writes: >> >> I was wondering about that. They've found that the temp of planets like >> Earth and Venus are much moredetermined by the temperature of its core, >and >> the nature of its crust. So the surface temp could be similar. Life >forms >> could be based of cemosynthasis like the stuff living near ocean bottom >> volcanic vents. Is anything down there a oxegen producer? Sounds like >a lot >> of the evolution could be similar. Fish, legged animals, etc. >> >> Kelly > >Photosynthesis is the only known oxygen producing reaction >in life that I know about. Thermal reactions don't supply a lot >of surplus energy however. That is the key factor. > >Ben Not thermal reactinos, chemical reactinos. The chemosynthasis used by bacteria near the "black smokers" From VM Fri Jul 16 10:09:59 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["496" "Thursday" "15" "July" "1999" "21:48:11" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "8" "starship-design: Last lunar words" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 496 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10357 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10348 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zOSLa22089 (3943); Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 54 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, DotarSojat@aol.com, RICKJ@btio.com, ric.hedman@micropath.net, info@new-utopia.com, indy@the-line.com, moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com Subject: starship-design: Last lunar words Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:48:11 EDT Everyone know what were first words spoken by the first man on the moon were, but very few people know the last ones. They were uttered by Apollo 17 commander Eugene Cernan who didn't know at the time that the December 1972 mission would be NASA's final Apollo flight. After getting clearance from Mission Control to leave the lunar surface, Cernan turned to his co-pilot, Harrison "Jack" Schmitt and said, "OK, let's get this mother out of here." -- Max Ary, Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center From VM Fri Jul 16 15:33:07 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["34531" "Friday" "16" "July" "1999" "17:04:07" "-0500" "L. Clayton Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "793" "starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 July 15" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 34531 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12630 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12591 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claymore (p234.gnt.com [204.49.89.234]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA22022 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:04:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Clayton Parker" From: "L. Clayton Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design" Subject: starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 July 15 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:04:07 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: owner-spaceviews@wayback.com [mailto:owner-spaceviews@wayback.com]On Behalf Of jeff@spaceviews.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 4:05 PM Subject: SpaceViews -- 1999 July 15 [ SpaceViews (tm) newsletter ] [ see end of message for our NEW address to subscribe / unsubscribe ] S P A C E V I E W S Issue 1999.07.15 1999 July 15 http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/0715/ *** News *** Former Astronaut Pete Conrad Dies Kazakhstan Lifts Ban on Baikonur Launches Near-Earth Asteroid No Longer A Collision Threat NASA Confirms July 20 Shuttle Launch Date Mir Air Leak Not Serious Delta Launches Globalstar Satellites X-38 Completes Fourth Drop Test Teledesic Moves Ahead SpaceViews Event Horizon Other News *** Book Reviews *** The Last Man on the Moon Totality *** Letters *** Your Thoughts on Space Tourism Editor's Note: We are in progress of adding a new section to our Web site dedicated to the Moon. Rather that duplicate those sites marking the 30th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing, the SpaceViews section will include information on current lunar exploration (Lunar Prospector's mission will end at the end of this month) and future prospects. Check our Web site (http://www.spaceviews.com) in the coming days as well as future issues of SpaceViews for more information about this section. *** News *** Former Astronaut Pete Conrad Dies Former astronaut Charles "Pete" Conrad, the third human being to set foot on the Moon, died in a motorcycle accident in southern California Thursday, July 8. He was 69. Conrad was riding a motorcycle with friends when he ran off the road near Ojai, California, northwest of Los Angeles. He was taken to a local hospital, where he died several hours later. Conrad, born in Philadelphia in 1930, joined the astronaut corps in 1962 as one of the nine members of the second astronaut class. He first flew in space in 1965 as pilot of Gemini 5, commanded by Mercury veteran Gordon Cooper. Conrad went on to command Gemini 11, the next-to-last flight of the program, a year later. He was probably best known as commander of Apollo 12, the second lunar landing mission. He and lunar module pilot Alan Bean spent nearly eight hours on the surface of the moon in two spacewalks in November 1969. Conrad's precision flying of the Apollo 12 lunar module set them down just a short distance away from the unmanned Surveyor 3 spacecraft that had landed there several years earlier. Conrad stayed in the astronaut corps after the Apollo 12 mission and was assigned as commander of Skylab 2, the first manned mission to America's first space station. That flight turned into an emergency repair mission when Skylab was damaged during launch. After Conrad and crew members Paul Weitz and Joseph Kerwin repaired the station, they spent nearly a month there. Conrad retired from NASA and the Navy after Skylab 2 and later joined McDonnell Douglas, where he worked for 20 years. During his time there he was involved with the Delta Clipper Experimental (DC-X) project, including remotely flying the small prototype for a single-stage to orbit launch vehicle from the ground. In 1995 Conrad formed Universal Space Lines, a family of companies involved with developing a commercial space infrastructure ranging from launch vehicles to ground stations. "He embodied the 'can-do' spirit of NASA, taking on problems and dealing with them without a lot of fuss," NASA administrator Dan Goldin said in a statement. "America has lost one of the great aviators and explorers of the 20th century." Conrad will be buried ar Arlington National Cemetary in a ceremony scheduled for July 19. Several Apollo astronauts are expected to attend the ceremonies. Kazakhstan Lifts Ban on Baikonur Launches The government has lifted a ban on most launches from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, clearing the way for a critical launch later this week of supplies to the Mir space station. A Kazakh government official told Reuters that the government had lifted the ban it imposed last week on all launches from Baikonur except those using the Proton booster. Proton launches are still banned while the investigation into a July 5 crash of a Proton continues. Russia had lobbied heavily for the ban to be lifted so it could launch a Soyuz booster carrying a Progress-M cargo spacecraft to Mir. That launch, originally slated for July 14, is now likely to occur on Friday, July 16, or Sunday, July 18. The Progress carries food, water, and other supplies and equipment to Mir, including a new guidance computer for the station. Russian officials said earlier in the week that if the Progress was not launched by July 20, it would not be able to reach Mir with its current cargo because it would have to expend extra fuel to reach the station. The supplies will allow the Mir crew to remain on the station until late August, when they plan to return to Earth. Before leaving they will install the new guidance computer, which will permit Mir to remain in the proper attitude while left unmanned. Russian Space agency officials had warned that if the Progress was not launched, the crew would have to evacuate the station. Moreover, Mir would have lost its attitude control, complicating its planned reentry early next year. Russia reportedly offered to pay over $100 million it owed to Kazakhstan for rent of the Baikonur launch site, as well as compensation for the Proton crash. Terms of the agreement were not announced by Kazakh officials, though. The lifting of the ban should also clear the way for the launch this month of a Ukrainian Zenit 2 booster, carrying the Russian-Ukrainian Okean remote sensing satellite. That launch, originally planned for July 8, was delayed when Kazakhstan imposed the ban on all Baikonur launches June 6. No date for the Zenit 2 launch has been announced. There was also no indication on when Kazakhstan would again permit Proton launches from Baikonur. Russian officials had said earlier this month that they expect to wrap up the investigation into the Proton crash, which has now been linked to an explosion in the second stage of the Proton about four and a half minutes after launch, possibly linked to a sudden temperature increase in one of the second stage's engines. NASA officials are carefully watching the Proton investigation, since a Proton is scheduled to launch the Zvezda service module for the International Space Station in November. Near-Earth Asteroid No Longer A Collision Threat The discovery of a 44-year-old photo of a near-Earth asteroid has all but eliminated any possibility that the object could hit the earth next century, astronomers reported July 12. Two German amateur astronomers, Arno Gnadig and Andreas Doppler, located a pre-discovery image of asteroid 1999 AN10 that dates back to 1955. The image, taken as part of the first Palomar Sky Survey, dates back to when the asteroid was making a close approach to the Earth and visible high in northern skies. Asteroid 1999 AN10 attracted attention earlier this year shortly after its discovery, when astronomers computed its orbit and discovered a billion-to-one chance that it could collide with Earth in 2039. Later analysis discovered another possible impact with 500,000-to-1 in 2044. Those predictions, though, were based on only few months' worth of observations and thus had large uncertainties. The discovery of the 1955 image allows astronomers to tie down the orbit with much greater accuracy. The refined orbit essentially eliminated any possibility of an impact in 2039 and 2044. In fact, Brian Marsden and Gareth Williams of the Minor Planet Center note that in 2044, 1999 AN10 will be on the opposite side of the Sun, more than 320 million kilometers (200 million miles) from the Earth at the time of the previously-predicted impact. The improved orbit also adjusted a close approach the asteroid will make to the Earth in 2027. Instead of passing as close as 32,600 km (20,200 mi.), the asteroid will pass at around 390,000 km (242,000 mi.), or about the Moon's distance from the Earth. The asteroid will not pass close to the Earth until 2076, when it will come no closer than 1.2 million kilometers (745,000 mi.) to the Earth. The revised orbit underscores the need to not only ramp up current searches for near-Earth objects, but to dig into archives to look for images that include the object prior to its discovery. The discovery of the impact potential for 1999 AN10 was publicized in April by Benny Peiser, moderator of a mailing list used by the near-Earth asteroid research community. Peiser generated some criticism for publicizing the earlier impact probabilities, but he notes ironically now that the whole affair could have been avoided, since the pre-discovery image is included in the publicly-accessible Digital Sky Survey. "It is quite astonishing that the teams involved in calculating impact probabilities for 1999 AN10 apparently failed to check this data before going public," he said in a message on his list July 13. "After all, they could have avoided announcing a short-term 'problem' right from the start." "Unless we can improve this astronomical data base [of facts and observations] substantially," he added, "we will have to rely on short-lived and highly speculative probability statistics which begin to look like a game of pure gamble." NASA Confirms July 20 Shuttle Launch Date NASA officials made July 20 the official launch date for STS-93, the second shuttle mission of the year that features the launch of the Chandra X-Ray Observatory and the first female commander. In a Thursday, July 8 briefing, shuttle managers confirmed that STS-93 was on track to launch at 12:36 am EDT (0436 UT) July 20, at the beginning of a 46-minute launch window. July 20 has been the unofficial date crews had been working towards for a month prior to Thursday's announcement. The primary purpose of STS-93 is to deploy the Chandra X-Ray Telescope (formerly the Advanced X-Ray Astrophysics Observatory, or AXAF). The crew will deploy Chandra and its Interial Upper Stage (IUS) booster engine from Columbia's cargo bay seven hours after launch. About an hour after deployment the IUS will begin a series of burns that will eventually place Chandra into an elliptical orbit between 10,000 and 140,000 km (6,200 and 87,000 mi.) above the Earth. Problems with chandra have delayed the launch of STS-93 by near a year. Most recently, a failure with an IUS used on a Titan 4 launch caused about a two-week delay while the Air Force, NASA, and IUS builder Boeing worked together on an investigation. The results of that investigation have not yet been released. The rest of the mission will be devoted to a number of secondary experiments. These projects range from studies of plant growth in microgravity to tests of a new lightweight solar array hinge to an ultraviolet astronomy experiment. The focus of the mission, though, will be on its crew, and in particular commander Eileen Collins, the first woman to command a shuttle mission. Collins has attracted considerable attention since she was first named commander of the mission in a White House ceremony in March of 1998. At a July 7 press conference, Collins said the selection of a woman as a shuttle commander was "a long time coming," noting the role women played to pioneer aviation early in the century. Collins said First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton was considering attending the launch, a possibility confirmed by White House officials. Collins escorted President and Mrs. Clinton when they attended the October 1998 launch of STS-95, featuring John Glenn's second spacefight. The other members of the STS-93 crew include rookie pilot Jeffrey Ashby and mission specialists Steven Hawley, Cady Coleman, and Michel Toganini, representing the French space agency CNES. Assuming an on-time launch, Columbia will return to the Kennedy Space Center for a landing just after 11:30 pm EDT July 24 (0330 UT July 25.) Mir Air Leak Not Serious A small loss of air pressure presents no danger to the crew of the Russian space station Mir, officials said Saturday, July 10. Officials at the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center told the Interfax news agency that the atmospheric pressure on Mir has been dropping slowly over the last two weeks. Sources say the loss of pressure has only been about 1 mm of Hg per day, amounting to only a couple percent of Mir's air pressure overall. "We are not treating this as an accident or an emergency, and there is no need for panic," an unnamed official told Reuters. "They [the Mir crew] have plenty of oxygen supplies." The cause of the air pressure decrease is unknown. Engineers originally hypothesized that changes in temperature in one of Mir's modules was causing the air pressure change, but they acknowledge that air could be leaking out through faulty valves or cracks in the module's hull. Officials have recommended to the three-man crew of Viktor Afanasyev, Sergei Avdeyev, and French astronaut Jean-Pierre Haignere that they close all internal hatches and monitor pressure as a way of isolating the location of the pressure loss. Delta Launches Globalstar Satellites A Boeing Delta 2 successfully launched four Globalstar satellites from Cape Canaveral, Florida, early Saturday, July 10. The Delta 2 lifted off from Pad 17B at 4:45 am EDT (0845 UT). No problems were reported to the launch, and the Delta 2's payload of four Globalstar satellites were successfully placed into orbit. The launch was originally scheduled for July 8, but delayed on two successive days by high upper-level winds. Those winds subsided to permit Saturday's launch. The launch is the second in a series of four Delta 2 launches planned for this summer to place one-third of Globalstar's 48-satellite constellation. The first took place June 10, with two more planned for July 24 and August 14, both from Cape Canaveral. With Saturday's launch, 28 Globalstar satellites are now in orbit, 16 from four Delta 2 launches and 12 from three Soyuz launches. Three more Soyuz and one more Delta 2 will be used this fall to complete the constellation plus fly four on-orbit spares. Globalstar plans to offer a limited version of its worldwide phone service this fall after the series of summer Delta 2 launches are complete. It will offer full phone service after the constellation is completed late this year. X-38 Completes Fourth Drop Test The X-38, a prototype of a future crew return vehicle for the International Space Station, successfully completed its fourth test flight Friday, July 9. X-38 vehicle #132 was dropped from a B-52 at an altitude of 9,500 meters (31,500 feet) Friday morning. The X-38 flew free for 31 seconds, the longest free flight yet, before deploying a new drogue chute and gliding to a successful landing on the lakebed at Edwards Air Force Base, California. The flight was the second for this X-38 test vehicle, and the fourth overall. Vehicle 132, which has better control surfaces and instrumentation than the original test vehicle, first flew March 5. Flights were delayed after that until a new drogue chute, capable of flights at higher altitudes could be tested. About four to five test flights of this X-38 vehicle are planned for this year. Future test flights will raise the drop altitude to 13,600 meters (45,000 feet) with longer flight times. At the end of the year it will be joined by the original X-38 test vehicle, used in the drop tests last month and in March 1998 and currently undergoing a refit. A full-scale version of the X-38 should also be available by early next year. The X-38 is designed to serve as a crew return vehicle should a medical emergency or other accident require the crew to evacuate the station before a shuttle or other spacecraft could arrive at the station. The spacecraft is also being considered for other purposes, including use as a ferry vehicle launched atop a European Ariane 5 booster. Teledesic Moves Ahead Teledesic announced contracts July 9 with Motorola and International Launch Services for the assembly and launch of its constellation of low-Earth orbit communications satellites. The contracts, plus word that the company has raised $1.5 billion in funding, provide new momentum for the broadband communications provider that had appeared to stall out earlier this year. Teledesic said it reached an agreement with Motorola to serve as the prime contractor for the Teledesic network. Motorola will handle the engineering and construction of the satellite constellation. Teledesic also signed a contract with International Launch Services, the joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Russian aerospace firms Energia and Khrunichev, to launch the satellite constellation. Teledesic purchased three launches each on the heavy-lift Atlas 5 and Proton M boosters, with options for five more launches on each vehicle. No date for the first launches were given, but since both the Atlas 5 and Proton M are in development the launches are not expected for the near future. Lockheed Martin says the first flight of the Atlas 5, an upgraded version of the Atlas 3, is not expected until late 2001. The Proton M, an modernized version of the Proton K currently in use, has not yet flown. Missing from the announcement were technical details about the Teledesic constellation. The Teledesic press release noted that the company's contract with Motorola depended on a successful final technical review, due in the next three months. At that time, the company said, details of the Motorola contract and a description of "the enhanced system design" would be publicized. The last publicized version of the constellation called for 288 satellites, plus spares, in low Earth orbits. However, recent speculation indicated that the number of satellites had gone down, to perhaps as low as 120. Teledesic also announced that it had raised $1.5 billion to date to develop the system. This includes a $150 million investment by Motorola, which joined the Teledesic effort in May 1998 when it abandoned Celestri, its own broadband satellite constellation it was planning. However, Motorola, which is also a key investor in the troubled Iridium satellite communications system, appeared to grow hesitant about Teledesic in recent months, pulling a group of its engineers off the project for a time. Some subcontractors also followed suit. Those workers will likely return to the project, as Teledesic paid Motorola $250 million as a down payment for its work as prime contractor. "We have savvy investors who understand the unique merits of our business plan, including the differences between our services and markets and those of others," Bill Owens, co-CEO and vice chairman of Teledesic, said. "They also have a global perspective and understand that this is a long-term undertaking that will help serve an unmet worldwide need for broadband services." SpaceViews Event Horizon July 15-16 Lunar Base Development Symposium, League City, TX July 16? Soyuz launch of the Progress-M 42 cargo spacecraft to Mir from Baikonur, Kazakhstan July 20 Launch of the shuttle Columbia on mission STS-93 (Chandra X-Ray Telescope deployment) at 12:36 am EDT (0436 UT) July 24 Delta 2 launch of four Globalstar satellites from Cape Canaveral, Florida, at 7:33 am EDT (1133 UT) July 24 Landing of the shuttle Columbia to end mission STS-93 at the Kennedy Space Center, at 11:31 pm EDT (0331 UT July 25) July 31 Pegasus XL launch of 8 ORBCOMM satellites from Kwajalein (Pacific Ocean) July TBD Zenit 2 launch of the Okean O-N1 satellite from Baikonur, Kazakhstan August 4 Ariane 4 launch of the Indonesian Telekom-1 communications satellite from Kourou, French Guiana. August 12-15 Mars Society 1999 Conference, Boulder, CO September 23-26 Space Frontier Conference 8, Los Angeles, CA Other News Solar Wind Discovery: Scientists using data from two spacecraft have figured out how the solar wind reaches speeds of up to 800 km/sec (500 mi/sec), NASA announced July 8. Solar wind ions "surf" on waves in the magnetic field lines of the Sun, accelerating them to the high speeds that are twice as fast as predicted by theory. "These vibrating magnetic waves give solar wind particles a push, just like an ocean wave gives a surfer a ride," said John Kohl of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory. The vibrating magnetic fields, discovered by the SOHO spacecraft and the Spartan solar science satellite deployed last fall on the STS-95 shuttle mission that features John Glenn, solve a mystery about the speed of the solar wind that had existed since the early 1960s. Ariane Launch Schedule: Arianespace plans an aggressive launch schedule for the rest of 1999, the company announced July 13. Arianespace plans eight Ariane 4 and 5 launches from August through December, starting with the Ariane 4 launch of the Telekom-1 satellite August 4. There have been only two Ariane launches this year, and none since early April, because of delays delivering satellite payloads to Ariane. Plesetsk Launch: A Molniya booster launched a Russian military communications satellite July 10 from Plesetsk, Russia. The satellite, also called Molniya, was placed in an elliptical, including orbit that better serves high latitude locations than geosynchronous satellites. The launch was the first of the year from Plesetsk, which had not seen a launch since two flights in December 1998. GOES-L Delay: The newest weather satellite, GOES-L, will remain on the ground until at least mid-October, officials with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced July 12. The launch has been delayed because of concerns about an RL-10 engine used in the Centaur upper stage of the Atlas 2 booster that will launch GOES-L. A similar engine apparently exploded during a Delta 3 launch in May. The repairs will not be completed before late August, when the fall eclipse season for geosynchronous satellites begins, as the Earth blocks the Sun for up to 72 minutes a day. The eclipse season ends in mid-October, and NOAA and Atlas builder Lockheed Martin will then work to schedule a launch later in the month or in November. NGST Contracts: Two aerospace companies were awarded contracts by NASA last week to begin preliminary designs of the Next Generation Space Telescope, the successor to the Hubble Space Telescope. Two teams, one led by Lockheed Martin and the other by TRW and Ball Aerospace, received 30-month contracts of about $15 million each to come up with preliminary designs of the NGST, which will feature an 8-meter (26.4-foot) mirror, several times larger than the one in Hubble. One of the designs will be selected in 2001 for construction, with launch planned in 2008. Briefly: Scientists in New Zealand are on the hunt for traces of a meteor which exploded over the country's North Island on July 7. Astronomers have narrowed down the path of the meteor to a 100-km strip partially over water, the New Zealand Herald reported July 12. No traces of the meteor, whose original size is unknown, have yet been found... Ehud Barak, the new prime minister of Israel, wants the United States to set a date for the first flight of an Israeli on the space shuttle. Two Israeli pilots have been training in the United States but have not been assigned to any flights. Barak told an Israeli newspaper than he hopes the U.S. will set a date during Barak's upcoming trip to Washington... Through all the concern about the fate of Mir, it's a little surprising a historic anniversary was relatively ignored recently. July 11 marked the 20th anniversary of the reentry of Skylab, America's first space station, as it burned up and scattered debris over portions of the Indian Ocean and Australia. That reentry was relatively harmless, so we can only hope for the same next year when Mir's turn comes around... *** Book Reviews *** by Jeff Foust The Last Man on the Moon: Astronaut Eugene Cernan and America's Race in Space by Eugene Cernan with Don Davis St. Martin's Press, 1999 hardcover, 356pp., illus. ISBN 0-312-19906-6 US$24.95/C$38.75 Buy this book at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312199066/spaceviews Gene Cernan holds the dubious distinction of being the last person to walk on the Moon, as commander of Apollo 17. Of course, it's not his fault that he was the last, but how he got to command the final Apollo landing mission was an interesting story of determination, fate, and luck both good and bad. Cernan tells the story of Apollo 17, along with his career as an astronaut, in "The Last Man on the Moon". Cernan's book is a memoir that starts with his childhood days outside Chicago, through college life at Purdue and his early career as a naval aviator, though his selection and career as an astronaut. The book includes vivid depictions of events such as Cernan's Gemini 9 spacewalk, which was fraught with trouble and danger, as well as the Apollo 10 "dress rehearsal" which nearly ended in disaster for Cernan and commander Tom Stafford. Cernan minces no words in his account of his astronaut career: he lets you know whom he liked and whom he didn't. In particular, he includes several sharp barbs about Buzz Aldrin, deflating Aldrin's claims to have revolutionized spacewalks on his Gemini flight and criticizing Aldrin's grandstanding to be the first to walk on the moon, an opinion Cernan said was shared by other members of the astronaut corps. There's little in the book about life after Apollo other than a brief account of his departure from NASA for private industry and his divorce and remarriage. However, Cernan's first person account of the Gemini and Apollo programs gives timely new insights on NASA's efforts to put a man on the moon, and how astronauts like Cernan helped make it possible. Totality: Eclipses of the Sun by Mark Littmann, Ken Willcox, and Fred Espenak Oxford University Press, 1999 softcover, 268pp., illus. ISBN 0-19-513179-7 US$18.95 Buy this book at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195131797/spaceviews Get ready for another case of eclipse fever. In August a total solar eclipse will be visible from Europe through the Middle East into India, with million gearing up to view the last total eclipse of the century and millennium. (This is true whether you consider 1999 or 2000 the last year of the century: there are no total eclipses in 2000.) Just in time for this latest eclipse is the second edition of "Totality", an excellent book solar eclipses. The book, written by a trio of eclipse experts and experienced observers (one of whom, Willcox, tragically passed away earlier this year) starts with some basic information about eclipses and early myths associated with them. The book then moves to more modern eclipse accounts, including how scientists today use eclipses to learn more about the Sun. Later chapters cover how to safely observe and photograph eclipses. One chapter of the book is dedicated the August 11 total eclipse, and another covers eclipses that will occur over the next half-century, making sure this book will not be easily outdated. The authors manage to cover a wide range of topics -- from photography tips to the complicated nature of eclipse cycles, or "saros" -- at varying levels, and do so well. "Totality" is a great resource for both the experienced eclipse chaser to the beginner eager to learn more about eclipses. *** Letters *** Your Thoughts on Space Tourism [Editor's Note: These letters are in response to our July 1 article about the recent space tourism conference in Washington, accessible online at http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/07/article1a.html. Letters can be sent to letters@spaceviews.com.] Possibily without intending to, Wolfgang Demisch, one of the conference speakers, identifies the biggest problem in financing space tourism today: given the current level of our tecyhnology, it's pretty nearly impossible to create a credible business plan that goes gradually. Everything is running on the ragged edge of disaster; investors and insurers tend not to like that. It's worth remembering that the Wright Brothers built their first plane on the back of almost half a century of glider and engine technology. Moreover, flight technology was further fast-tracked by two world wars, yet it took the best part of six decades before air tourism to really become something the masses might seriously aspire to. Air tourism also had the advantage of international agreements which expressly limited the compensation payable to victims of air accidents... a extremely useful luxury that space tourism ventures are highly unlikely to have. Under the circumstances, the development of tourism-friendly launch vehicles may not be travelling as slowly as some dreamers claim. Robert Clements The biggest problem facing space tourism is the red tape. The licensing and insurance required to try it are taking over twice the effort, and cost, as the engineering. The regulations for certifying, licensing and even getting waivers to fly private space craft are daunting. No one has any clear idea of the requirements or how to answer them. Not other, larger, aerospace companies, not lawyers, not NASA, AST, FAA, FCC, DoT or NSTB. The science, engineering, physics and chemistry? They are the easy part. Jim Hill Cerulean Freight Forwarding Company The article on space tourism ignores the news article "Explosion Cause of Delta 3 Failure" in the same issue. Public awareness of the real risks is a significant limit to the market. Tourism advocates don't seem to recognize that as a significant issue. Even in Apollo, where dollar cost was not really a consideration, there were accidents and loss of life. The high mission loss rate reported in the news article reflects the higher risks associated with today's cost driven environment. Commercial operations can afford the risks when it is just hardware and money. But most people want better odds before risking their lives. Michael McGuirk Routine space tourist launch services, for a reasonable price per flight, require new, completely reusable launch vehicles. The turn-around time for these vehicles must be short, which means aircraft-like operations. Furthermore, safety must be high, at least comparable to that of "extreme" sports such as skydiving. For this a high reliability and extensive abort possibilities are required. No such space vehicle exists today. The Space Shuttle is only partly reusable, has a turn-around time of several months and is much too expensive to operate. Low-cost, reusable launch vehicles with short turn-around times are only now under development by NASA (VentureStar), ESA (FESTIP), NASDA and several private companies. These vehicles are intended to lower launch costs for satellites. For tourism these vehicles will still be rather expensive and safety is too low for launching tourists: even a reliability of 99% (which is high compared to current launch vehicles) means that of 100 launches, 1 vehicle does not make it to orbit. Imagine that in every 100 commercial aircraft flights one crashes or has to make an emergency landing, that would mean several airplane emergency situations per day! Rocket motors are still not even nearly as reliable as jet engines. Vehicles for space tourism could be the next generation of reusable launchers, but first those now under development will have to prove that routine, low-cost, safe operations with fast turn-arounds are possible for regular satellite launches. Only then will investors see the possibilities these kind of vehicles offer for space tourism and be prepared to put any money into it. It's just too early for space tourism; the market is there but the technology is not (yet). Michel van Pelt I'm a 38 years old dentist who lives and works in Brazil. I've visited the U.S. for 5 times. I've visited Cape Canaveral in Florida twice and I love all subjects related to space science and exploration. My dream is at least see one launch of the Space Shuttle. But if I could go to space even for a few hours it would be the most beautifull dream of my life. The risks are insignificant when compared with such a wonderful idea. Leopoldo Andriao Junior ======== This has been the July 15, 1999, issue of SpaceViews. SpaceViews is also available on the World Wide web from the SpaceViews home page: http://www.spaceviews.com/ or via anonymous FTP from ftp.seds.org: ftp://ftp.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/1990715.txt To unsubscribe from SpaceViews, send mail to: majordomo@spaceviews.com In the body (not subject) of the message, type: unsubscribe spaceviews For editorial questions and article submissions for SpaceViews, including letters to the editor, contact the editor, Jeff Foust, at jeff@spaceviews.com For questions about the SpaceViews mailing list, please contact spaceviews-approval@spaceviews.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____ | "SpaceViews" (tm) -by Boston Chapter // \ // | of the National Space Society (NSS) // (O) // | Dedicated to the establishment // \___// | of a spacefaring civilization. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- - - To NOT receive future newsletters, send this message to our NEW address: - To: majordomo@SpaceViews.com - Subject: anything - unsubscribe SpaceViews - - E-Mail List services provided by Northern Winds: www.nw.net - - SpaceViews (tm) is published for the National Space Society (NSS), - copyright (C) Boston Chapter of National Space Society - www.spaceviews.com www.nss.org (jeff@spaceviews.com) From VM Mon Jul 19 09:50:50 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["163" "Sunday" "18" "July" "1999" "18:03:14" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "5" "starship-design: A space ark." "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: A space ark." nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 163 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23287 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23276 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin33.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.33]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25039; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37926B42.EFE98367@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" , Richard Hallock Subject: starship-design: A space ark. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:03:14 -0600 A interesting but very graphic site on a ark in space. More fiction the technical but a nice change of pace. http://genesis-space-station.simplenet.com/index.htm From VM Wed Jul 21 14:40:43 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["16902" "Tuesday" "20" "July" "1999" "18:09:34" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "414" "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 87 (fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 16902 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26854 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26833 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p257.gnt.com [204.49.91.17]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA04895 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:38:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bed3c1$55335950$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 87 (fwd) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:09:34 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu [mailto:listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of Chris W. Johnson Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 3:41 PM To: Single Stage Rocket Technology News Subject: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 87 (fwd) You'll find two forwarded items in this message: (1) Space Access Society Political Alert 07/19/99 (2) Space Access Update #87 7/19/99 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:19:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Access Political Alert 7/19/99 (fwd) Reply-To: delta-clipper@world.std.com Space Access Society Political Alert 07/19/99 This one is important - it's one of our top priorities for this year. (See Update #81 at www.space-access.org for details.) Please give it everything you've got. Summary: The Senate HUD/VA (NASA) Appropriations bill is scheduled for subcommittee then committee "markup" this week, starting Wednesday July 21st. The House equivalent is scheduled for markup starting next Monday, July 26th. If your Representative or a Senator from your state is on the House or Senate Appropriations Committee (see attached lists) please call fax or write them at their Washington office and ask them to do two things in the NASA Appropriation markup: - Add $50 million to NASA Future-X for reusable rocket low-cost flight operability demonstrations done as small business setasides, to encourage increased competition in the space launch business. - Do not add any funding for the premature and oversold "Spaceliner 100" airbreathing launch vehicle project, as a matter of priorities. Background, Item 1: We're pushing for startup funding for one or more NASA Future-X low-cost fast-turnaround high-speed reusable- rocket flight operations demonstrators, done as small business setasides, with a goal of $100 million or less (Future-X "Pathfinder" class projects) per flight vehicle program. The majors all have their own X-rocket projects, none to date very promising as far as significantly cheaper launch goes. We think it's time to give one or more of the entrepreneurial startup launch companies a chance to show what they can do on a shoestring. Background, Item 2: The "Spaceliner 100" RBCC-engined (RBCC is a notional hybrid rocket-airbreather) space launch vehicle project has been repeatedly oversold in recent months, to the point where we think the overstated and sometimes downright deceptive claims being made are actively damaging the already-fragile commercial investment environment for more proven near-term low-cost launch approaches. We approve of ongoing research aimed at bringing the various "Spaceliner 100" technologies closer to ready for prime time. We strongly oppose attempts to fund a half-billion-dollar flight vehicle project based on an as-yet hypothetical engine at the expense of real current commercial reusable launch vehicle projects. We think initiation of a $500 million "Spaceliner" flight vehicle project is both grossly premature in terms of the state of the technologies involved, and damaging to the near-term chances of implementing far more mature low-cost launch technologies. How To Do It If your Representative or one or both of your Senators is on the lists at the end of this alert, get their DC office address, fax number, or phone number from www.vote-smart.org. (Alternative: make a call to your local library information desk.) Compose a polite concise one-page latter to them, identifying yourself as a constituent of theirs, telling them what you'd like them to do, then briefly explaining why - just hit one or two high points, don't overexplain. Thank them for their attention, sign the letter, and send it. Paper mail is best if it can get there in time, fax is a close second (a voice call is good too) and email is way back in last place, as far as the chances of getting attention - staffers are aware paper mail, faxes, or phone calls take more effort, so they take these more seriously. If you can't fax, then phone their DC office number, ask for whoever handles NASA appropriations questions, then when connected to that staffer (or more likely their voice mail) tell them briefly who you are ("I'm Joe Smith from Missouri") and what you want them to do, then (unless they have questions) thank them for their time and ring off. Thanks! Space Access Society www.space-access.org Senate Appropriations Committee Members * HUD/VA (NASA) Subcommittee member - Republicans Ted Stevens (AK), Chair Thad Cochran (MS) Arlen Specter (PA) Pete Domenici (NM) Christopher Bond (MO) * (Subcommittee chair) Slade Gorton (WA) Mitch McConnell (KY) Conrad Burns (MT) * Richard Shelby (AL) * Judd Gregg (NH) Robert Bennett (UT) Ben Nighthorse Campbell (CO) Larry Craig (ID) * Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX) * Jon Kyl (AZ) * - Democrats Robert Byrd (WV), Rnk. Mem. * Daniel Inouye (HI) Ernest Hollings (SC) Patrick Leahy (VT) * Frank Lautenberg (NJ) * Tom Harkin (IA) * Barbara Mikulski (MD) * (Subcommittee RMM) Harry Reid (NV) Herbert Kohl (WI) Patty Murray (WA) Byron Dorgan (ND) Dianne Feinstein (CA) Richard Durbin (IL) House Appropriations Committee Members * HUD/VA Subcommittee member C.W. Bill Young, Florida, Chairman Ralph Regula, Ohio Jerry Lewis, California John Edward Porter, Illinois Harold Rogers, Kentucky Joe Skeen, New Mexico Frank R. Wolf, Virginia Tom DeLay, Texas * Jim Kolbe, Arizona Ron Packard, California Sonny Callahan, Alabama James Walsh, New York * (Subcommittee chair) Charles H. Taylor, North Carolina David L. Hobson, Ohio * Ernest J. Istook, Jr., Oklahoma Henry Bonilla, Texas Joe Knollenberg, Michigan * Dan Miller, Florida Jay Dickey, Arkansas Jack Kingston, Georgia Rodney P. Frelinghuysen, New Jersey * Roger F. Wicker, Mississippi * Michael P. Forbes, New York George R. Nethercutt, Jr., Washington Randy "Duke" Cunningham, California Todd Tiahrt, Kansas Zach Wamp, Tennessee Tom Latham, Iowa Anne Northup, Kentucky * Robert Aderholt, Alabama Jo Ann Emerson, Missouri John E. Sununu, New Hampshire * Kay Granger, Texas John E. Peterson, Pennsylvania David R. Obey, Wisconsin John P. Murtha, Pennsylvania Norman D. Dicks, Washington Martin Olav Sabo, Minnesota Julian C. Dixon, California Steny H. Hoyer, Maryland Alan B. Mollohan, West Virginia * (Subcommittee RMM) Marcy Kaptur, Ohio * Nancy Pelosi, California Peter J. Visclosky, Indiana Nita M. Lowey, New York Jose E. Serrano, New York Rosa L. DeLauro, Connecticut James P. Moran, Virginia John W. Olver, Massachusetts Ed Pastor, Arizona Carrie P. Meek, Florida * David E. Price, North Carolina * Chet Edwards, Texas Robert E. "Bud" Cramer, Jr., Alabama * James E. Clyburn, South Carolina Maurice D. Hinchey, New York Lucille Roybal-Allard, California Sam Farr, California Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., Illinois Carolyn C. Kilpatrick, Michigan Allen Boyd, Florida *end* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Access Update #87 7/19/99 (fwd) Reply-To: delta-clipper@world.std.com Space Access Update #87 7/19/99 Copyright 1999 by Space Access Society __________________________________________________________________ Stories This Issue: - Key Weeks Here For Congressional RLV Funding in NASA, DOD - FAA RLV Launch/Reentry Regs Comment Period Closes Tuesday - Departed Friends - Thirty Years Since "One Small Step" - Editorial ________________________________________________________________________ Key Weeks For Congressional Space Funding Our two main Federal funding priorities this year are $50 million new money for NASA Future-X reusable rocket flight ops demos ("X-Ops") done as small-business setasides in order to foster new competition in the space-launch market, and $35 million in new money for USAF reusable rocket upper stage work (the X-40B "Space Maneuver Vehicle"). (See www.space-access.org/updates/sau81.html for more details.) Congress and the White House continue to maneuver over potential future surpluses, the '97 deficit deal spending caps, and tax cuts. Congress is trying to get the actual spending legislation, the dozen or so Appropriations Bills, done before the August congressional recess, so as to avoid late-September clock pressure (FY'00 actually starts October 1st) if the White House vetoes any of them. The '97 deficit deal caps have been partially dodged till now via creative accounting, but that won't work this year - the bills are coming due. The combination of the post-Kosovo defense increase and deferred cuts coming home to roost would mean something like a 10% cut to (among other things) NASA next year, *if* the caps are held to. The deficit hawks want to stick to the caps, the White House wants to forget about them, while much of the Congress is somewhere in between. The probable result is a compromise - we'd guess NASA will still be cut, but likely by a lot less than 10%. The short version of what this means for us is twofold: One, the actual money bill for NASA, the HUD, VA, and Independent Agencies FY'00 Appropriation, is now scheduled to be "marked up" in committee on the Senate side this coming Wednesday, July 21st, and in the House on Monday July 26th. These dates have slipped repeatedly in recent weeks, but we don't think there's much room for them to slip more without pushing them into September. The DOD appropriation, meanwhile, has already been passed by the Senate (with $25 million for USAF SMV), is likely to be passed by the House this week (with $12.5 million for USAF SMV), and (our best guess) will likely go to conference before the August recess - we plan to push hard for higher funding in the conference. Two, there will still be considerable pressure on NASA funding. Getting new money for Future-X reusable rocket flight ops demos, something we think is key to getting cheap space transportation in this generation, will take all the push we've got. We also, alas, need to oppose startup funding for the "Spaceliner 100" airbreathing space launcher project, as a matter of priorities - the RBCC engine technology just isn't there yet, and there simply isn't enough money to do needed near-term rocket work and start a premature "NASP II" project also - "Spaceliner" proponents have talked about spending $500 million through 2004. If either of your Senators, or your Representative is on an Appropriations committee (you can check at www.vote-smart.org) we need you - yes, you - to write them a letter or give them a phone call, and ask them to: - Add $50 million to NASA Future-X for reusable rocket low-cost flight operations demonstrations done as small business setasides. - Do not add any funding for the premature "Spaceliner 100" project, as a matter of priorities. The current deadline for the Senate is, Wednesday July 21st for the HUD/VA subcommittee markup, Thursday for the full Appropriations committee markup. In the House, next Monday for the HUD/VA subcommittee markup, Tuesday the full committee. These dates may yet slip again - but even if they do, your timely effort will be a huge help in getting what's needed in a very tight NASA budget. For more details on how to do this, see the Alerts we'll be sending out after this, or check our website, www.space-access.org. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________ FAA RLV Launch/Reentry Regs Comment Period Closes Tuesday The ninety-day comment period on FAA AST's NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rulemaking) on Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) launch and reentry safety regulations closes Tuesday, July 20th - all comments must arrive at FAA in writing by close of business tomorrow. For any procrastinators among the affected parties, the .pdf text of the proposed regulations can be found at http://ast.faa.gov/licensing/regulations with a posting date of April 20th. ________________________________________________________________________ Departed Friends Most of you likely know by now that Pete Conrad, third man on the moon, only man to vertical-land rockets on two planets, and founder of the USL group of space operations companies, died last week after a motorcycle accident, and is being buried today in Arlington National Cemetary. Pete Conrad could have rested on his laurels after leaving NASA, but didn't - he continued actively advancing the space business as a key figure in the DC-X reusable rocket demonstrator program and then as founder and head of USL. If he'd lived another ten years, we wouldn't have bet against him landing on the Moon again, in a ship his company owned this time - and he would have been at the controls. Pete Conrad had his head in the stars but his feet firmly planted on the ground. Our sympathy goes out to his family and friends. We'll miss him. ________________________________________________________________________ Thirty Years Since "One Small Step" - Henry Vanderbilt, Executive Director, Space Access Society Thirty years ago this Tuesday, I recall a hot still summer afternoon in the bunkroom of our vacation shack in the Connecticut woods, my ear glued to my (six-transistor!) radio, finally hearing those words crackling over the air - "Houston, this is Tranquility Base - the Eagle has landed." I'd blown off going to the beach that day with the rest of my family, I was just too into following the Moon mission. Once they were actually down safely I was excited enough a thirteen-year-old that my dad drove us both back up to Boston so we could watch the first moonwalk on our old black-and-white TV that evening. I was totally pumped - a dream was coming true. If you had told me then that thirty years and near a half-trillion dollars later, the US would just be getting started on its second space station, twenty years after trashing the first, I would have thought you were nuts. Thirty years and a half-trillion dollars? A growing Lunar base for sure, likely a foothold on Mars too, miners fanning out to the asteroids, and the first probes to nearby stars leaving soon, that's what I would have reasonably expected. Tuesday July the 20th 1999 is a day to remember proudly what we've achieved in the past, but it's also a day to contemplate the decades of time and mountains of dollars we've wasted (and continue to waste) on bureaucratic self-perpetuation since Apollo. "Keeping the team together" in hindsight was the recipe for institutional sclerosis in what has become the NASA-Industrial complex. The massive manned-space part of the agency still hasn't recovered, and may never recover, absent political will to do what should have been done post-Apollo: Define a realistic new mission, and redesign the organization from scratch to meet it. In the last ten years, we've started moving forward again, taking chances again, building and flying X-vehicles, developing new engines (there are more new rocket engines in test in the US right now than at any time since the early sixties), and perhaps most radical of all, beginning to figure out how to do space the way that endures - at a profit. We are however doing this far more in spite of than aided by the institutional dinosaurs of the NASA-Industrial complex. We don't see any practical way to reform them; the bureaucratic and political inertia involved is massive. We anticipate that they will keep plodding along doing a hugely expensive minimal manned-space program until they stumble into some form of self-destruction. Our main hope is to bypass them, staying out from under the dinosaurs' feet when possible, giving them the occasional hotfoot when they do try to step on us. Not exactly the best of all possible worlds, thirty years after Neil Armstrong's giant leap for mankind - but it beats the hell out of no hope at all. It's a good day to think about all the hard work still ahead of us, and to resolve to never dig ourselves a hole this large again. ________________________________________________________________________ Space Access Society's sole purpose is to promote radical reductions in the cost of reaching space. You may redistribute this Update in any medium you choose, as long as you do it unedited in its entirety. ________________________________________________________________________ Space Access Society http://www.space-access.org space.access@space-access.org "Reach low orbit and you're halfway to anywhere in the Solar System" - Robert A. Heinlein From VM Thu Jul 22 14:50:09 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["360" "Thursday" "22" "July" "1999" "12:57:12" "-0700" "N. Lindberg" "nlindber@u.washington.edu" nil "10" "starship-design: Clarke's Laws" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 360 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11242 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11231 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dante35.u.washington.edu (nlindber@dante35.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.195]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA18602 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (nlindber@localhost) by dante35.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA73348 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "N. Lindberg" From: "N. Lindberg" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship design Subject: starship-design: Clarke's Laws Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Hello All, I have heard of Clarke's 2nd Law, "All sufficiently advanced technology is indisitnguishable from magic", But i have always heard that second-hand, usually in discussions about human ET relations. I was wondering if anyone on the group knew what the title of clarke's original essay/book having to do with the "laws" was. Thanks, Nels Lindberg From VM Thu Jul 22 21:34:43 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["508" "Thursday" "22" "July" "1999" "21:58:40" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "16" "Re: starship-design: Clarke's Laws" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 508 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07290 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07277 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id dPMUa05696 (4263); Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4a8812dc.24c92650@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: nlindber@u.washington.edu, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Clarke's Laws Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:58:40 EDT In a message dated 7/22/99 2:59:41 PM, nlindber@u.washington.edu writes: >Hello All, > I have heard of Clarke's 2nd Law, "All sufficiently advanced >technology is indistinguishable from magic", But i have always heard that >second-hand, usually in discussions about human ET relations. I was >wondering if anyone on the group knew what the title of clarke's original >essay/book having to do with the "laws" was. >Thanks, >Nels Lindberg I'm not sure it was even something written in his essays. Kelly From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:12 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["969" "Saturday" "24" "July" "1999" "18:55:32" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "ajcrowlx2@ozemail.com.au" nil "33" "Re: starship-design: Clarke's Laws" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: Clarke's Laws" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 969 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16032 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fepa.mail.ozemail.net (fepa.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.101]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16025 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ae05109.powerup.com.au [203.147.197.109]) by fepa.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA17748 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:54:20 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001701bed5b2$4a52fc00$6dc593cb@oemcomputer> References: <4a8812dc.24c92650@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: Re: starship-design: Clarke's Laws Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:55:32 +1000 Hi Guys, The original statement is in "Report On Planet Three" or "Profiles of the Future". It's definitely something he wrote as he refers to it many times elsewhere. I think the original context was about starflight. Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 11:58 AM Subject: Re: starship-design: Clarke's Laws > > In a message dated 7/22/99 2:59:41 PM, nlindber@u.washington.edu writes: > > >Hello All, > > I have heard of Clarke's 2nd Law, "All sufficiently advanced > >technology is indistinguishable from magic", But i have always heard that > >second-hand, usually in discussions about human ET relations. I was > >wondering if anyone on the group knew what the title of clarke's original > >essay/book having to do with the "laws" was. > >Thanks, > >Nels Lindberg > > > I'm not sure it was even something written in his essays. > > Kelly > From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["8326" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "11:05:31" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "158" "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 8326 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11735 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11730 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p276.gnt.com [204.49.91.36]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA18573 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:06:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bed6b7$92ea7230$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:05:31 -0500 WHERE ARE THEY? What follows is a commentary on several recent theories regarding life in our galaxy and my ideas on the results of these theories when applied to the Drake Equation in attempt to answer Fermi's Paradox. Drake's Equation (see http://www.seti.org/drake-eq.html for an explanation) has been a past topic of conversation here many times. I first came across this equation many years ago and have been fascinated with it ever since. For those of you not familiar with it, it basically an algebraic representation of the probability for the existence of life, and in particular, intelligent life in our galaxy. This was in response to Fermi's famous query, "Where are they?", now called Fermi's Paradox. I am always interested in any ideas or theories that would help to answer Fermi's question and recently two new theories have been propounded that bear directly upon the parameters for Drake's Equation. The equation itself is fairly straight forward. Choosing values for each of the variables however, is not so easy. Many of these variables must be no more than educated guesses. Different values for some of the variables can produce wildly different results, hence a better understanding of the conditions which define those variables can make an enormous difference in the accuracy of the equations solution. GAMMA RAY BURSTS The first new theory is from James Annis, an astrophysicist at Fermilab near Chicago. He thinks cataclysmic gamma-ray bursts often sterilize galaxies, wiping out life forms before they have evolved sufficiently to leave their planet (Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, vol 52, p 19). GRBs are thought to be the most powerful explosions in the Universe, releasing as much energy as a supernova in seconds. Many scientists think the bursts occur when the remnants of dead stars such as neutron stars or black holes collide. Annis points out that each GRB unleashes devastating amounts of radiation. "If one went off in the Galactic center, we here two-thirds of the way out on the Galactic disc would be exposed over a few seconds to a wave of powerful gamma rays." He believes this would be lethal to life on land. The rate of GRBs is about one burst per galaxy every few hundred million years. But Annis says theories of GRBs suggest the rate was much higher in the past, with galaxies suffering one strike every few million years -- far shorter than any plausible time scale for the emergence of intelligent life capable of space travel. That, says Annis, may be the answer to Fermi's question. "They just haven't had enough time to get here yet," he says. "The GRB model essentially resets the available time for the rise of intelligent life to zero each time a burst occurs." Paul Davies, a visiting physicist at Imperial College, London, says the basic idea for resolving the paradox makes sense. "Any Galaxy-wide sterilizing event would do," he says. However, he adds that GRBs may be too brief: "If the drama is all over in seconds, you only zap half a planet. The planet's mass shields the shadowed side." Annis counters that GRBs are likely to have many indirect effects, such as wrecking ozone layers that protect planets from deadly levels of ultraviolet radiation. Annis also highlights an intriguing implication of the theory: the current rate of GRBs allows intelligent life to evolve for a few hundred million years before being zapped, possibly giving it enough time to reach the space faring stage. "It may be that intelligent life has recently sprouted up at many places in the Galaxy and that at least a few groups are busily engaged in spreading." LARGE MOONS The second theory deals with a surprising connection between the conditions required for a total eclipse and for the emergence of intelligent life. Guillermo Gonzalez of the University of Washington in Seattle points out that our distance from the Sun is a necessary condition for us to be here. "If we were a little nearer or farther from the Sun, the Earth would be too hot or too cold and so uninhabitable," says Gonzalez. At the same time our existence depends on an unusually large moon since its pull stops the Earth wobbling around too much on its axis and causing wild and catastrophic swings in climate like those on Mars. Our Moon, which is unusually large compared to those in almost all other planet-moon systems, probably formed from molten material blasted from the Earth during the impact of a giant body more than 4 billion years ago. In the current issue of Astronomy & Geophysics (vol 40, p 3.18), Gonzalez points out that the way the Moon formed means it started off very close to the Earth and has taken several billion years to move far enough away until it precisely covers the Sun during an eclipse. "The timescale is very similar to that of the appearance of intelligent life," he says. "It is therefore not such a big coincidence that we are around at the time when it is possible to see total eclipses." Because tidal effects cause the Moon to slowly recede from the Earth, perfect eclipses have been visible only for about 150 million years and will continue for only another 150 million years, about 5 per cent of the current age of the Earth. Furthermore, Earth is the only planet in our Solar System where a perfect eclipse is visible, although there are 64 other moons. If Gonzalez is right, then all extraterrestrials, wherever they are, are likely to live on planets like ours that experience total eclipses. But since an unusually large Moon is rare, he says, this suggests that both ETs and total eclipses are very rare indeed. WHAT IT MEANS Taken together, these two factors enormously reduce the values of at least one and probably as many as three variables to practically zero offering at least one possible answer to Fermi's query, there aren't any... If you consider all of the factors you can write a simple relation, using Drake's Equation, for estimating the probability. I use the word "estimate" intentionally because our knowledge of most of the factors is so poor that we are really only guessing. Drake's Equation, involves 7 factors as follows: |Number of | |Rate | |Fraction| |Number | |Fraction| |civilizations| |of | |of stars| |of | |of | |in our galaxy| |star | |with | |planets | |planets | |capable of | = |formation| X |planets | X |per star| X |on which| |communication| |(per | |with | |life | |now | |year) | |suitable| |appears | |environ-| |ment | |Fraction| |Fraction | |Longevity | |of life | |of | |of each | |bearing | |intelli- | |technology | x |planets | X |gent | X |in | |on which| |societies| |communi- | |intelli-| |which | |cative | |gence | |develop | |mode (years)| |emerges | |communi- | |cation | |ability | Suppose you guessed that stars in our galaxy form at the rate of one per year (probably not a bad estimate), that 1/5 of the stars have planets (no one knows), that there are 0.0005859375 planets with stable environments (length of time between GRBs divided by the age of our solar system times the fraction of planets with suitable moons in our solar system ), that life appears on each (fraction = 1), that intelligence emerges on each of these (fraction= 1), that 1/10 of these develop communication capability and that these remain in this state for 1000 years. Then, it works out that the number is 0.01171875. In other words, in one hundred thousand years, only one intelligent, communicative civilization would appear, far less than most current speculations. Note that other than the value for suitable life bearing planets, all of the rest of the values were heavily in favor of intelligent life developing. Reducing either of the next two factors to reasonable levels further reduces the odds by several orders of magnitude. If you accept these two theories (and remember, they are just theories), then in all likelihood Earth is the only planet in the galaxy that currently harbors intelligent life. L. Parker From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["8401" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "09:33:03" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "149" "starship-design: The Next Thirty Years: A Business Vision" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: The Next Thirty Years: A Business Vision" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 8401 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11727 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11718 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p276.gnt.com [204.49.91.36]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA18566 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:06:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bed6b7$8f30c590$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: The Next Thirty Years: A Business Vision Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:33:03 -0500 Reposted from SpaceDaily The Next Thirty Years: A Business Vision by Joe Schembrie AstroTug Corporation Seattle - July 19, 1999 - Thirty years ago, when the Apollo astronauts became the first humans to voyage to the Moon, they surveyed the lunar landscape and spoke of 'magnificent desolation.' Thirty years later, the Moon is still as desolate as they left it. Will it be that way thirty years from now? Back in the 1960s, we had so many heady dreams that never came to pass. We thought that the Apollo missions would be followed up by regular flights to the Moon. There would soon be a refueling base, and then even colonies. Next stop: Mars. Why not? The government was spending 5.7 % of the federal budget on the space program. Massive government spending would buy the rockets, the stations, the moon bases. The best and brightest, attracted to government service through selfless dedication, would plan every step. Enduring motivation would be provided through government-mandated goals of national prestige, defense, and science. Then the taxpayers grumbled, and the ordering of governmental priorities was altered. Thirty years of space-advocate cheerleading for public funding has coincided with a seven-fold decline in NASA's budget and the indefinite postponement of trips beyond Earth orbit. The bad news is, today we're in competition before Congress with a million other bright ideas on how to spend other people's tax money -- and all of them are 'for the children.' The good news is, today we no longer have to rely solely on government to advance the cause of human space exploration. The computer and communications revolutions are creating an ever-increasing demand for commercial satellites. A hundred-billion-dollar launch services market cries out for cheap access to space. And what a market that big wants, it usually gets. Following is a brief scenario of how private enterprise might advance the human space endeavor. It's not a call for a government industrial planning agency. It's not a call for special subsidies. It's not the business plan of any one company. It's simply some speculations on how that much-maligned motivator known as 'short-term profit-seeking' may well lure us back to the Moon -- this time not just to plant footprints, but to establish cities. The Personal Space Initiative begins with cheap access to space. Reusable Launch Vehicles are already being built which will replace the far more expensive throwaway vehicles presently used to launch satellites. Within the next four years, by 2004, surely one such vehicle will be orbiting payloads for less than $1000/pound. First-generation RLVs will be too small to place large payloads directly into high orbit. Instead, they will launch satellite and orbital transfer fuel on separate flights into Low Earth Orbit. A teleoperated space tug, guided by humans and computers on the ground, will shepherd the satellite and fuel together and push them toward Geosynchronous Earth Orbit -- and beyond. For such LEO-to-GEO transfers, ion propulsion in place of chemical-fuel propulsion will save thousands of pounds of fuel per space tug mission. With fuel transported from Earth into low orbit costing $1000/pound, millions of dollars will be saved per mission. NASA's Deep Space One probe has already proven that ion propulsion is feasible for inner solar system space flight. A reusable ion space tug can be built now and be ready for transorbital missions when RLVs need them, around 2005. Yet ion propulsion is slow to accelerate, and can take a month or more pushing a satellite from LEO to GEO -- and time is a very critical cost issue when satellite depreciation and interest charges run to millions of dollars per month. An alternative, preferable source of high-thrust chemical fuel for orbital transfer missions can be found on the Moon, where lunar ice can be mined and converted into hydrogen-oxygen fuel by teleoperated equipment, and then transported by teleoperated vehicles down to LEO for only a few dollars per pound. 'Lunar Express' can be in service by 2007. The satellite orbital transfer business will annually require hundreds of thousands of pounds of lunar ice/fuel to be shipped from Luna to LEO. Why couldn't humans ride to the Moon on the return trips? Perhaps by 2009, a human will revisit the Moon aboard a teleoperated moon shuttle. Humans on the Moon will prospect for rare metals. For an overall transport cost which is a tiny fraction of their market value, gold, platinum, palladium, and even silver mined on the Moon can be lifted into lunar orbit with chemical rockets whose hydrogen-oxygen fuel is derived from lunar ice, and then towed down to LEO with ion space tugs, and then dropped from LEO to Earth's surface inside disposable atmospheric entry shells. Lunar rare metals -- a potential twenty billion dollar a year industry -- should be discovered by 2011. In just four years, the California Gold Rush drew two hundred thousand people across a continental divide as formidable in the nineteenth century as the distance between Earth and Moon will be in the twenty-first. A multi-billion dollar lunar mining industry could afford and rapidly attract thousands of miners as soon as a major strike occurs. And with that $1000/pound shipping charge from Earth, there will be a powerful incentive to grow food, manufacture clothing, and construct habitats from local materials. Accomplishing those tasks of lunar self-sufficiency will be thousands of additional workers -- and entrepreneurs. Lunar mining company executives will want to retain people rather than ship them up from Earth in rapid rotation, and that means making the lunar environment as hospitable as possible. Perhaps cities will resemble something along the lines of multiple stadium-like enclosures, with a transparent dome over a central parkland, ringed by condominiums and shops. The first such lunar atrium, housing as many as a thousand humans, could be erected by 2015. As life on the Moon proceeds from magnificent desolation to comfortable self-sufficiency, and second-generation RLVs bring the cost of space access down to $100/pound or less, other reasons for lunar colonization open up. There's space tourism. There's old folks retirement (for those in their late seventies and older, low gravity can make the difference between an active and sedentary lifestyle). And the environmental laws will be looser and the taxes lower (we hope). By 2030, the Moon could be speckled with numerous large domed ecospheres, filled with trees and lakes gleaming beneath the earthlight, populated by creative and industrious pioneers who consider themselves not so much the offspring of earthly states as the founding citizens of an interplanetary civilization. The Apollo astronauts saw a barren, airless, lifeless world that made them glad to come home. The Moon has remained in that pristine but slaglike state for thirty years. But thirty years from now, there will be enterprises and cities, gardens and even young forests on the Moon. How soon can this vision be realized? Ion tugs could be ready when RLVs are, and once teleoperated vehicles are in routine service to the Moon, it will be difficult to restrain humans from hitching rides. Creative individual initiative and the profit motive could make it all happen sooner than currently thought. What is certain is that the journey back to the Moon has already begun. With appropriately directed enthusiasm, all of this will be achieved in the private sector, driven by market forces -- without grumbling taxpayers, without subsidies, without the 'guidance' of a central planning agency -- for much less cost than grandiose governmental efforts. Giant political leaps failed, but small private steps will not. There's just too much money to be made. That's why, thirty years from now, there will be regular flights to the Moon, and a refueling base, and even colonies. And perhaps well before that time, there will be an intrepid lunar entrepreneur with enough vision to say, "Next Stop: Mars." Joe Schembrie, a lifelong space enthusiast, has a BS in Electrical Engineering and an MBA from the University of Washington. An engineer who has worked for the US Department of the Navy and the Boeing Airplane Company, he is currently President of Astrotug, a company dedicated to the development of teleoperated space tugs. From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1258" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "10:06:10" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "23" "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1258 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20941 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20933 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05227 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08409; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:06:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14235.17410.540170.425118@localhost.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <000101bed6b7$92ea7230$0401a8c0@broadsword> References: <000101bed6b7$92ea7230$0401a8c0@broadsword> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:06:10 -0700 (PDT) There is some recent theoretical work suggesting that gamma-ray bursts are non-isotropic, meaning that they do not radiate equally in all directions. These models claim that gamma-ray bursts happen when a massive star in a particular mass range undergoes a core collapse; a black home forms in the core, an accretion disk forms around the black hole from matter that has not yet fallen into the core, and the accretion disk creates two extremely energetic relativistic particle beams perpendicular to the disk. These blast through the outer layers of the star and create the gamma-ray burst when they impact the interstellar medium. So from two directions you can see a gamma-ray burst, but from other directions the star looks mostly like a normal supernova. If this is true then gamma-ray burst events are even more common, but we can see only those whose beams point at us. However, it is then unlikely that gamma-ray bursts can sterilize galaxies. I have heard other claims that our large moon influenced the development of life on this planet, but your summary of Guillermo Gonzalez's claim that intelligent life is somehow connected to the presense of solar eclipses doesn't even attempt to speculate why these necessarily have to be connected. From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1975" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "14:11:06" "-0400" "Curtis L. Manges" "clmanges@worldnet.att.net" nil "42" "Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1975 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01288 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01275 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.97.44]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990725181200.ZVDT8676@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:12:00 +0000 Message-ID: <379B533A.82FCCCD7@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000101bed6b7$92ea7230$0401a8c0@broadsword> <14235.17410.540170.425118@localhost.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Curtis L. Manges" From: "Curtis L. Manges" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:11:06 -0400 Hello all, For another possible explanation for GRB's, click this link: www.rideau.net/~gaasbeek/index.html#contents . This puts you on the index page, in case you'd like to check out the other papers. From there, scroll down to the table of contents and click on paper number 4, "Frames of Reference: Part Two". Look for the discussion on observation of superluminal stars, and you'll find what I'm talking about. This guy seems to make sense, and I think his work deserves a serious look, especially since he's good enough about it to include his equations. I'd just be curious to hear some of your reactions to it. Keep looking up, Curtis Steve VanDevender wrote: > There is some recent theoretical work suggesting that gamma-ray > bursts are non-isotropic, meaning that they do not radiate > equally in all directions. These models claim that gamma-ray > bursts happen when a massive star in a particular mass range > undergoes a core collapse; a black home forms in the core, an > accretion disk forms around the black hole from matter that has > not yet fallen into the core, and the accretion disk creates two > extremely energetic relativistic particle beams perpendicular to > the disk. These blast through the outer layers of the star and > create the gamma-ray burst when they impact the interstellar > medium. So from two directions you can see a gamma-ray burst, > but from other directions the star looks mostly like a normal > supernova. > > If this is true then gamma-ray burst events are even more common, > but we can see only those whose beams point at us. However, it > is then unlikely that gamma-ray bursts can sterilize galaxies. > > I have heard other claims that our large moon influenced the > development of life on this planet, but your summary of Guillermo > Gonzalez's claim that intelligent life is somehow connected to > the presense of solar eclipses doesn't even attempt to speculate > why these necessarily have to be connected. From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["7671" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "15:28:07" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "178" "Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 7671 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14796 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14784 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id zMTJa03142 (8014) for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:28:07 EDT In a message dated 7/25/99 11:07:17 AM, lparker@cacaphony.net writes: >WHERE ARE THEY? I've always been interested in this too. Its been a major question about the nature of life and the universe. >GAMMA RAY BURSTS > > > >The first new theory is from James Annis, an astrophysicist at Fermilab >near > >Chicago. He thinks cataclysmic gamma-ray bursts often sterilize galaxies, > >== > That, says Annis, may be the answer to Fermi's > >question. "They just haven't had enough time to get here yet," he says. >"The > >GRB model essentially resets the available time for the rise of intelligent > >life to zero each time a burst occurs." > > > >Paul Davies, a visiting physicist at Imperial College, London, says the > >basic idea for resolving the paradox makes sense. "Any Galaxy-wide > >sterilizing event would do," he says. However, he adds that GRBs may be >too > >brief: "If the drama is all over in seconds, you only zap half a planet. >The > >planet's mass shields the shadowed side." Annis counters that GRBs are > >likely to have many indirect effects, such as wrecking ozone layers that > >protect planets from deadly levels of ultraviolet radiation. The importance or our ozone layer is grossly over stated now a adays.. If our ozone layer were eliminated, it would be as if we all moved 100 miles closer to the equator. Also radiation forms ozone. On the other hand having half an ecosphere burned off would have to trash the rest of the planet. Certainly enough to crash a civilization for a while, but not enough to kill off intelligent lifeforms. A variation of this is the idea even milder burst could crash an interstellar civilization. Right now cosmic rays are a major limitation on life in space due to the radiation. But since we know about it we can design our ships and platforms to deal with it. But it seems cosmic rays are intermittent. If we "came out" during a millennia of low space rad. We might have a major interstellar civilization, and see it all destroyed when a few century cosmic ray storm whipes out space travelers. The result could crash civilization everywhere. Perhaps were just the first ones out who knew what to expect? >Annis also highlights an intriguing implication of the theory: the current >rate of GRBs allows intelligent life to evolve for a few hundred million >years before being zapped, possibly giving it enough time to reach the >space faring stage. "It may be that intelligent life has recently sprouted up >at many places in the Galaxy and that at least a few groups are busily engaged >in spreading." Possibly. > > >LARGE MOONS > > > >The second theory deals with a surprising connection between the conditions >required for a total eclipse and for the emergence of intelligent life. >Guillermo Gonzalez of the University of Washington in Seattle points out >that our distance from the Sun is a necessary condition for us to be here. >"If we were a little nearer or farther from the Sun, the Earth would be >too >hot or too cold and so uninhabitable," says Gonzalez. At the same time >our >existence depends on an unusually large moon since its pull stops the Earth >wobbling around too much on its axis and causing wild and catastrophic >swings in climate like those on Mars. Our Moon, which is unusually large >compared to those in almost all other planet-moon systems, probably formed >from molten material blasted from the Earth during the impact of a giant >body more than 4 billion years ago. This seems iffy, but the weird nature of our moon could be significant. Thou I find it hard to believe its the only way to evolve a intelligent race? One could just as easily decide one needed to be on a moon of a jovian since close in to most stars the radiation and orbital stability are to bad. >=== > >WHAT IT MEANS > > > >Taken together, these two factors enormously reduce the values of at least >one and probably as many as three variables to practically zero offering >at least one possible answer to Fermi's query, there aren't any... >If you consider all of the factors you can write a simple relation, using >Drake's Equation, for estimating the probability. I use the word "estimate" >intentionally because our knowledge of most of the factors is so poor that >we are really only guessing. True, we haven't more then poor clues, and most of them don't add up to the empty skies we see around us. Any of these ideas at most mean their should be fewer folks out their coming here. But we have no sign that anyone EVER came to earth! The statistics of that are low, which is frightening. >Suppose you guessed that stars in our galaxy form at the rate of one per >year (probably not a bad estimate), that 1/5 of the stars have planets >(no one knows), that there are 0.0005859375 planets with stable environments >(length of time between GRBs divided by the age of our solar system times >the fraction of planets with suitable moons in our solar system ), that >life appears on each (fraction = 1), that intelligence emerges on each of these >(fraction= 1), that 1/10 of these develop communication capability and >that these remain in this state for 1000 years. Then, it works out that the >number is 0.01171875. In other words, in one hundred thousand years, only >one intelligent, communicative civilization would appear, far less than >most current speculations. But again the numbers are guesses. You assume few stars grow starsystems, and very few have environments where life can grow. There ae multiple autonomous ecosystems on earth, only ours needs to worry about solar energy or weather. Those based on the volcanic chemistry of deep ocean vents, or deep under ground are now thought to be far larger then our photosynthesis based ecosphere. The deep ocean vent environment is thought to exist on at least one moon in our solar system, and that's out in the jovian belt. This strongly suggests our biases toward the "life belt" based on solar heating and photosphere may just be our prejudice. Why assume folks only retain communication abilities for a thousand years. We've retained writing for about 5 times as long. Abilities to build boats and simple buildings and weapons for a couple times that. Given the value of high tech and spaced based industry and resources, I could see this stuff being a high priority for retention. A better question is why would one do SETI communications. If your curious about the stars. Most won't have anyone to answer your call. Sending probes or expeditions could be far more effective, and get info back a lot faster then waiting for someone to answer your call. I'm beginning to think the basic assumption of SETI, that folks would always prefer transmitting and waiting, rather then scouting about and looking for themselves. Give the ridiculous waits necessary to check out any stars, especially if you need to wait for a civilization to evevolve to answer your call. Bottom line, we don't know (even in vague ways) how likly biosphere's, intelligence, muchless technical civilizations are. They could be virtually the norm for any chemically active planet that hangs around a few billion years. One per solar system could be virtually unknown. Or they might almost never happen, and you hardly ever have more then a handful of civilization active in a galaxy at one time. Or perhaps the nanotech/singularity folks are right and past our level of tech things explode dramatically. A couple centuries from now our desendanscould be so advanced they'd be little more interested in contacting us, as we'd have to go visit ants. > > >L. Parker From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["943" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "15:12:55" "-0500" "Kyle R. Mcallister" "stk@sunherald.infi.net" nil "19" "Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 943 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23251 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fh105.infi.net (fh105.infi.net [209.97.16.35]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23234 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (pm5-43.gpt.infi.net [207.0.195.43]) by fh105.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28995 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907252017.QAA28995@fh105.infi.net> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "SSD" Subject: Re: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:12:55 -0500 > Or perhaps the nanotech/singularity folks are right and past our level of > tech things explode dramatically. A couple centuries from now our > desendanscould be so advanced they'd be little more interested in contacting > us, as we'd have to go visit ants. But you're forgetting...we DO visit ants...at least the myrmecologists do. But they don't talk to them...they just study them. Perhaps that is the explanation (as I have said before) for why no one is here. They wouldn't come for technology, or anything like that. The only thing they could conceivably be interested in with us would be how we behave, and how we are put together. To study that, you need not make contact. Plus, it makes psychological studies much easier. If you want to know how people are put together, you send down microscopic probes to investigate. Granted, this might not be the goal of every civilization, but it could explain many. Kyle R. Mcallister From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2407" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "15:25:19" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "47" "RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2407 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24793 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24786 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p374.gnt.com [204.49.91.182]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA05822 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <000501bed6db$df514620$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <14235.17410.540170.425118@localhost.efn.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Starship-Design (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:25:19 -0500 > There is some recent theoretical work suggesting that gamma-ray > bursts are non-isotropic, meaning that they do not radiate > equally in all directions. These models claim that gamma-ray > bursts happen when a massive star in a particular mass range > undergoes a core collapse; a black home forms in the core, an > accretion disk forms around the black hole from matter that has > not yet fallen into the core, and the accretion disk creates two > extremely energetic relativistic particle beams perpendicular to > the disk. These blast through the outer layers of the star and > create the gamma-ray burst when they impact the interstellar > medium. So from two directions you can see a gamma-ray burst, > but from other directions the star looks mostly like a normal > supernova. > > If this is true then gamma-ray burst events are even more common, > but we can see only those whose beams point at us. However, it > is then unlikely that gamma-ray bursts can sterilize galaxies. No, it doesn't change the end result at all as far as the equation is concerned. It just means that there are more of them to make up the difference. Statistically, the end result is the same. We seem to have just been extremely lucky in that none have been pointed our way in somewhat more than the allotted amount of time. > > I have heard other claims that our large moon influenced the > development of life on this planet, but your summary of Guillermo > Gonzalez's claim that intelligent life is somehow connected to > the presense of solar eclipses doesn't even attempt to speculate > why these necessarily have to be connected. > True, it wasn't germane to my point. Actually Gonzalez doesn't really say that there is a casual connection. Only that a large moon is required to stabilize a planet's normally erratic orbital tendencies and that left unstabilized, wild rotational shifts would cause sufficient climatic instability to discourage the rise of complex life forms. An examination of our own climatic past lends credence to this theory. The relatively few problems the Earth has undergone have resulted in wholesale extinctions - particularly among higher life forms. I would think that the odds might actually be somewhat better. The theory does not allow for twin planets rotating around a common center. I am not certain that this arrangement would not be tidally locked however. Lee Parker From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1119" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "14:45:00" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "22" "RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1119 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08912 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08893 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13664; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09197; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:45:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14235.34140.357344.727563@localhost.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <000501bed6db$df514620$0401a8c0@broadsword> References: <14235.17410.540170.425118@localhost.efn.org> <000501bed6db$df514620$0401a8c0@broadsword> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "L. Parker" Cc: "'Starship-Design (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:45:00 -0700 (PDT) L. Parker writes: > > If this is true then gamma-ray burst events are even more common, > > but we can see only those whose beams point at us. However, it > > is then unlikely that gamma-ray bursts can sterilize galaxies. > > No, it doesn't change the end result at all as far as the equation is > concerned. It just means that there are more of them to make up the > difference. Statistically, the end result is the same. We seem to have just > been extremely lucky in that none have been pointed our way in somewhat more > than the allotted amount of time. Actually, plenty are pointed our way -- otherwise we wouldn't keep detecting them so frequently. Statistically, though, the result is not the same. On a universe-wide scale, there are plenty of gamma-ray bursts for everyone to see. If GRBs are isotropic, then, yes, potentially each burst we see has sterilized a large portion of its host galaxy. But if GRBs aren't isotropic, then individual GRBs aren't sterilizing huge parts of the galaxies they occur in, and at a galaxy-wide scale there aren't enough close GRBs to clear galaxies of life. From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1665" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "19:03:21" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "34" "RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1665 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18185 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18176 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p294.gnt.com [204.49.91.102]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA20299; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:46:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000601bed721$c16b2630$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <14235.34140.357344.727563@localhost.efn.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Steve VanDevender'" Cc: "'Starship-Design (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:03:21 -0500 > > No, it doesn't change the end result at all as far as the > equation is > > concerned. It just means that there are more of them to make up the > > difference. Statistically, the end result is the same. We > seem to have just > > been extremely lucky in that none have been pointed our > way in somewhat more > > than the allotted amount of time. > > Actually, plenty are pointed our way -- otherwise we wouldn't > keep detecting them so frequently. > > Statistically, though, the result is not the same. On a > universe-wide scale, there are plenty of gamma-ray bursts for > everyone to see. If GRBs are isotropic, then, yes, potentially > each burst we see has sterilized a large portion of its host > galaxy. But if GRBs aren't isotropic, then individual GRBs > aren't sterilizing huge parts of the galaxies they occur in, and > at a galaxy-wide scale there aren't enough close GRBs to clear > galaxies of life. As I understood your original response, you were saying that GRBs might be anisotropic - which means to me we only see GRBs aimed directly at us. The sterilization theory was based upon the OBSERVED incidence of GRBs and is not materially affected by this change. Regardless of whether a particular GRB is aimed at us or away from us (anisotropic) the summation of all GRBs must be isotropic. Which means there are a great many GRBs that we never see, in fact the majority of them are never seen. Either way, the statistics are the same and the conclusion reached is the same. The only thing that has changed is the number of GRBs that occur in order to perform the same act - sterilization of large segments of the galaxy. Lee Parker From VM Mon Jul 26 09:43:13 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1767" "Sunday" "25" "July" "1999" "22:32:56" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "30" "RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil "starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1767 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25340 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25326 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28682 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10645; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:32:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14235.62216.555748.426572@localhost.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <000601bed721$c16b2630$0401a8c0@broadsword> References: <14235.34140.357344.727563@localhost.efn.org> <000601bed721$c16b2630$0401a8c0@broadsword> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'Starship-Design (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: starship-design: WHERE ARE THEY? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:32:56 -0700 (PDT) L. Parker writes: > As I understood your original response, you were saying that GRBs might be > anisotropic - which means to me we only see GRBs aimed directly at us. The > sterilization theory was based upon the OBSERVED incidence of GRBs and is > not materially affected by this change. Regardless of whether a particular > GRB is aimed at us or away from us (anisotropic) the summation of all GRBs > must be isotropic. Which means there are a great many GRBs that we never > see, in fact the majority of them are never seen. Either way, the statistics > are the same and the conclusion reached is the same. The only thing that has > changed is the number of GRBs that occur in order to perform the same act - > sterilization of large segments of the galaxy. The statistics aren't necessarily the same, Lee. Note that for as many GRBs as are visible us, our planet isn't sterilized yet; that's because none of them are occurring within our galactic neighborhood. If GRBs are anisotropic then relatively few star systems will be in the path of the GRB beams and close enough to be affected; other nearby star systems will see the supernova but not be inundated with gamma radiation. A lot more star systems will be far enough away to be in line with the beams and see them without being sterilized by the radiation. Unfortunately I don't know the exact "beam spread" predicted in the theoretical models such that it would be possible to estimate the number of GRBs that are occurring that we can't see directly (although many supernovae we see may be producing them) or the likelihood of being zapped by a GRB. I'm quite sure, however, than in the anisotropic case the probability of being zapped by a GRB is much lower than in the isotropic case. From VM Tue Jul 27 09:50:09 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["664" "Monday" "26" "July" "1999" "23:41:28" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "19" "starship-design: Another billionair looking to invest in space tourism" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 664 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24584 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24572 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id nQYCa03142 (3703); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <807bd55d.24ce8468@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, bbbark@surfree.com, RICKJ@btio.com, starchld@io.com Subject: starship-design: Another billionair looking to invest in space tourism Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:41:28 EDT http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-07/25/111l-072599-id x.HTML Washington post ran an article on A real-estate and hotel guy offering to put up half a billion for him lunar orbiting hotel concept. "It's up to private enterprise to get the general public into space in our lifetimes," [Robert] Bigelow said in a weighty tone, as though he alone were carrying this burden. "It is imperative that we create user-friendly, market-driven projects like this one or it will never happen." Of course he hired Greg Bennett (ex NASA flight planer, current 'Artemis group' founder) to head his aerospace R&D group, so he might not be too bright. Kelly From VM Tue Jul 27 09:50:09 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1441" "Tuesday" "27" "July" "1999" "00:45:36" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "38" "starship-design: Proposed maned missin to asteriod?" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1441 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06394 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06388 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id nFORa26905 (4398); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <784d8030.24ce9370@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: moschleg@erols.com, Sdudley6@aol.com, MARK.A.JENSEN@cpmx.saic.com, DTaylor648@aol.com, JohnFrance@aol.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, jcavelos@empire.net, DotarSojat@aol.com, starchld@io.com, RICKJ@btio.com, Shealiak@XS4ALL.nl Subject: starship-design: Proposed maned missin to asteriod? Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:45:36 EDT http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/sc/story.html?s=v/nm/19990726/sc/sp ace_asteroid_5.html Monday July 26 2:34 PM ET Human Trip To Water-Rich Asteroid Possible By 2015 ITHACA, N.Y. (Reuters) - Human beings could go prospecting on a tiny, water-rich asteroid and return samples to Earth by 2015, much sooner than any possible human mission to Mars, astronomers said Monday. The water-rich asteroid -- a lumpy ball about 100 feet in diameter called 1998 KY26 -- could serve as a sort of cosmic filling station for space travelers, ``a space station waiting for occupants,'' according to Steven Ostro of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/sc/story.html?s=v/nm/19990726/sc/sp ace_asteroid_4.html Monday July 26 12:25 AM ET Asteroid Offers Oasis For Space Explorers- Report WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A rapidly spinning asteroid that passed close to Earth last year offers an ``oasis for future space explorers'' because it is loaded with water, astronomers said Friday. An international team of astronomers in the Czech Republic, Hawaii, Arizona and California pointed radar and optical telescopes at Asteroid 1998 KY26 when it passed about 500,000 miles (800,000 km) from the Earth in June 1998. Reporting in the journal Science, they said they found that the 100-foot (30-meter) object spins -- rotating every 11 minutes -- but more importantly, they found it is loaded with ice. From VM Thu Jul 29 15:17:12 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["9353" "Thursday" "29" "July" "1999" "17:05:48" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "206" "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 88 (fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 9353 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28864 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28852 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p236.gnt.com [204.49.89.236]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA13025 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:09:58 -0500 Message-ID: <001801beda0f$08778dd0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 88 (fwd) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:05:48 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu [mailto:listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of Chris W. Johnson Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 8:59 PM To: Single Stage Rocket Technology News Subject: SSRT: Space Access Update no. 88 (fwd) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:18:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Access Update #88 7/24/99 (fwd) Reply-To: delta-clipper@world.std.com The House NASA appropriators (the HUD, VA, and Independent Agencies subcommittee, "mark up" their NASA funding bill Monday. NASA Space funding was cut ~ 1.4B$ (10%), "essentially gutting NASA's space science programs." See these web sites for details: http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/07/27a.html http://www.flatoday.com/space/today/ http://www.reston.com/nasa/watch.html http://www.space.com/ The full committee, "mark up" of the NASA funding bill Friday. This is the time to call & Fax your Congressman! Check the House Web page for contact info. http://www.house.gov/appropriations/members.htm Henry will be sending out the next Update soon. ...Don Doughty, List Manager PS. This List had three sources when it started. Now, only SAS provides info to this list. See the MSG at the End of Update #88. -- Space Access Update #88 7/24/99 Copyright 1999 by Space Access Society __________________________________________________________________ Stories This Issue: - Latest on Congressional NASA, DOD RLV Funding - Rotary Rocket Flies ATV, Does Second Round of Layoffs - Miscellany - USA Sponsored Shuttle Forever Symposium, New US Defense Space Policy, SAS Needs Money! ________________________________________________________________________ Latest on Congressional NASA, DOD RLV Funding Our current alert (see www.space-access.org/updates/alt0799b.html) asks you to contact any members of the House or Senate Appropriations committees local to you, and ask them to A: add $50 million to NASA Future-X for reusable rocket low-cost flight ops demonstrations, and B: as a matter of priorities, do NOT fund startup of the premature and oversold "Spaceliner 100" airbreathing launcher project. The Senate NASA appropriators (the HUD, VA, and Independent Agencies subcommittee, then the full Appropriations committee) were scheduled to "mark up" their NASA funding bill last week, but they once again postponed. Keep after them, but save the phone charges and use paper mail - all they'll say about when they will actually do markup is "before the August recess", which starts August 6th. That narrows things down to either this coming week, or the week after, and we'd guess at the current pace the week after (starting Monday August 2nd) is more likely. So if you haven't yet gotten around to contacting them, or if you did but via voice phone, get their DC office address from www.vote-smart.org, buy a stamp, and send them a letter first thing this week - it'll likely get there in time. The House HUD/VA appropriations bill, as of last Thursday, was still scheduled for subcommittee markup this Monday July 26th, late in the day. So if your Congressman is on Appropriations and you haven't yet contacted him or her, phone or fax Monday! See the alert at www.space-access.org for details on how. Over in the Defense Department budget, we're pushing for funding for the X-40B "Space Maneuver Vehicle" (SMV), a spacegoing version of the USAF Phillips Lab X-40A landing-only reusable upper stage demonstrator flown successfully last winter. X-40B will demonstrate a variety of reusable space-launch, on-orbit, and reentry operations we and the USAF think very useful, operations complementary to what NASA plans to do with the related X-37. We and various like-minded folk have been working this one for a while - the Senate Defense Appropriation was passed weeks ago with $25 million for this project. Last week the House marked up and passed its version of the DOD funding bill with surprising speed - with nothing for SMV in it, oops. We've been given to understand that there is support for USAF SMV among the House Appropriators, and that it is possible they'll accede to the Senate position of $25 million funding when it comes time for the two to hammer out their differences in conference. We don't know when the Defense Appropriations conference will happen, though we suspect (for arcane tactical reasons) it may take place untraditionally early, within the next two weeks. As soon as we know the timing for sure, we're going to be asking your help pushing hard for full funding for X-40B. ________________________________________________________________________ Rotary Rocket Flies ATV, Does Second Round of Layoffs Rotary Rocket Company at about 8:30 am PDT on Friday July 23rd flew their Roton ATV for the first time, doing multiple rotor-borne liftoffs, low-altitude hovers, and landings over the course of several minutes. The ATV is Rotary's "Aerial Test Vehicle", intended to demonstrate structures, systems, and the rotor-borne landing mode for the company's planned Roton reusable launch vehicle. This initial flight took place several months behind the original (very aggressive) schedule - late, but not in our view unusually so, given the leanness of the budget (Rotary built and flew the ATV on $30 million total funding that we know of) and the universality of Murphy's Law - development projects *always* take a little longer than the engineers expect. Unfortunately, Rotary seems to have run low on shoestring - their ATV flight coincided with the effective date of their second round of layoffs. We have not been able to get a definitive answer on the scope of the latest round of layoffs (we observe that even for companies in trouble, not being straight with the press is counterproductive) but it seems likely based on what we have been able to dig out that absent an immediate infusion of cash, Rotary is at best in mothballs and at worst is history. ________________________________________________________________________ Miscellany - United Space Alliance (USA), the Boeing/Lockheed-Martin Shuttle operating consortium, is sponsoring the Space Shuttle Development Conference at NASA Ames, Moffet Field CA (actual site seems to be the Westin Santa Clara) with an all-star cast, Wednesday July 28th through Friday July 30th, 1999. The general theme of the conference seems to be the prospects for continuing Shuttle operations for decades to come. Information at www.futureshuttle.com; media registration contact is Jack King at 407 861-4358. - The US Department of Defense has adopted its first major new space policy in a while - one key point being that we will treat space a lot more like we treat the sea and international airspace, as a medium where we support freedom of navigation and we will defend US assets, another point being that we will be pushing toward more flexible lower-cost space operations, both unmanned and potentially (if the cost comes down enough) manned. - And finally for this Update, Rotary Rocket isn't the only outfit on a too-short shoestring. Information warfare in support of radically cheaper space transportation costs a whole lot less than actually developing hardware, but it still costs. If you like what we're doing and you want to see more, money is the sincerest form of flattery. An SAS membership is $30, and gets you a discount on our annual conference (Space Access '00, April 27-29, 2000, in Phoenix Arizona) plus direct email subscription to our Updates and Alerts. Yes, we give away our Updates and Alerts promiscuously - Job #1 is to get across our point of view. No, we don't incessantly nag SAS members to renew or donors to give more - we're old-fashioned enough to think that's rude. No, donations to SAS are not tax-deductible - we do far too much lobbying to qualify for 501c3 tax-deductible status without lying like rugs, and regardless of how common this may be we won't do it. And no, we won't take donations from government contractors that might be affected by our positions; that way lies self-censoring impotence as the next big corporate check gets ever more important. We've seen that, we won't do it. Given the above self-imposed restrictions, it's a tribute to our supporters that we're still here and fighting after seven years. We've seen checks for five bucks, we've seen a blessed few for a thousand. Money translates very directly to time and energy - we thank you every one for all you've given over the years. It's settling into a long grinding struggle, alas. Please, help us stick with it. Send your checks to SAS, 4855 E Warner Rd #24-150, Phoenix AZ 85044. ________________________________________________________________________ Space Access Society's sole purpose is to promote radical reductions in the cost of reaching space. You may redistribute this Update in any medium you choose, as long as you do it unedited in its entirety. ________________________________________________________________________ Space Access Society http://www.space-access.org space.access@space-access.org "Reach low orbit and you're halfway to anywhere in the Solar System" - Robert A. Heinlein From VM Sat Jul 31 16:35:45 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["26327" "Saturday" "31" "July" "1999" "12:43:30" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "765" "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert no. 2 (fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "7" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 26327 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01511 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01476 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p287.gnt.com [204.49.91.47]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA26530 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bedba4$c8349000$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" Status: O X-Status: From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert no. 2 (fwd) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:43:30 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu [mailto:listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of Chris W. Johnson Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 7:17 PM To: Single Stage Rocket Technology News Subject: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert no. 2 (fwd) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:57:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Science Political Alert #2 Sender: delta-clipper-approval@world.std.com Reply-To: delta-clipper@world.std.com Act before Friday 9:30AM ED Details of House NASA Science Budget cuts. ...DLD -- Space Science Political Alert #2. Thursday 29 July 1999. >From: Tim Kyger One more long message.sorry! Cross-posting of the data contained in this message is strongly encouraged. Post it where ever you wish, and in as many places as you can. Please! You may get multiple copies of this. Once again...sorry! I'm working as fast as I can... The Prospect Before Us. The shoe has finally dropped. On Monday 26 July, at the House of Representatives' Committee on Appropriations' Subcommittee on VA, HUD, and Independent Agencies met and marked their FY '00 VA/HUD bill. NASA's budget was, as predicted, eviscerated; its science programs were cut by roughly a billion dollars, with an overall cut of $1.325 billion dollars. A detailed rundown of these budget cuts, along with specifics as to what programs would die as a result, follows later in this Alert. There's also a Pork Report; the VA/HUD Appropriators made lots of cuts, but you may be sure that they took good care of themselves and their districts..! But first.the full House Appropriations Committee will meet at 9:30 am on Friday, 30 July, to adopt and markup a FY '00 VA/HUD appropriations bill. This means that all of us have today - Thursday - to call, write, and/or fax appropriate Members of House Appropriations. Start with the Chairman of the full Committee -- C.W. Bill Young (R-FL10) 202/225-5961 vox 202/225-9764 fax 813/893-3191 district office 2407 Rayburn House Office Building Washington DC 20515 Remember that letters have much more clout than a phone call, and email has the least clout of all. It is strongly suggested that a letter be written and then faxed to Mr. Young's office. A draft letter that may be used to model your letters is also attached, and further supporting material may also be found later in this Alert. Follow up your letter to Mr. Young with a letter to Mr. Obey, the Ranking Democrat on the full Committee -- David R. Obey (D-WI7) 202/225-3365 vox 202/225-3240 fax 715/842-5606 district office 2314 Rayburn House Office Building After you finish with Mssrs. Young and Obey, fax a letter (if you haven't already) to Mssrs. Walsh and Mollohan James Walsh (R-NY25) VA/HUD Subcommittee Chair 202/225-3701 vox 202/225-4-42 fax 315/423-5657 district office 2351 RHOB rep.james.walsh@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/walsh/ web site Alan B. Mollohan (D-WV1) VA/HUD Subcommittee RMM 202/225-4172 vox 202/225-7564 fax 304/232-5390 district office 2346 RHOB Make your anger at these disastrous cuts known to your representatives! Remember that these cuts won't be sustained until and unless the President signs a VA/HUD appropriations bill into law that actually has such a cut - and that is a long fight away from happening yet. We can still win this. Once you're done with the four gentlemen just noted, if you can, fax a letter to each and every Member of the House Appropriations Committee who isn't on the VA/HUD Subcommittee. They may be the swing votes needed to reverse these cuts in full Committee. A list of names and fax numbers may be found at the end of this Alert. Timing. As noted, the full House Appropriations Committee meets tomorrow; and sometime next week the full House will vote on the VA/HUD appropriation. This means that we have a chance to amend this bill on the House floor to turn back these cuts. Stay tuned; this will be the core of Alert Number Three... In the meantime, the Senate VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee might mark at any time from this moment on. It may mark this next week, for example. But it also may wait to mark until after the August Congressional "work period." This is the most probable way that events will run, giving us four or so weeks to work our will upon the Members of the Senate. So keep your fax machines fired up. Keep ready to write and fax a mess of letters to Senators. Let's Not Forget The Vice President. To recap, Vice President Al Gore is running for President. Here's what Gore had to say on 20 July 1999 at the National Air and Space Museum upon awarding the Apollo 11 crew the Langley Medal: "I am deeply committed to an aggressive, forward-looking space program, a space program that dares to push the limits of the heavens." Let's hold him to his statement. He can start by working to turn these cuts around. Vice President Gore can best be reached at the following address: Vice President Albert Gore, Jr. Room S-212 United States Capitol Washington DC 20510 Fax your letters to: 202/224-0291. Al Gore's email address is: vice.president@whitehouse.gov His web site is: www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/OVP/html/GORE_home.html The fax number at the Old Executive Office Building for Gore is: 202/456-2685. Fax him a letter right after you fax letters to the House Appropriations critters. Into The Ovens. The $2.5 billion Space Station budget got cut by $150 million - a pro forma cut so Appropriators could say that they hadn't not cut Space Station. Ditto Space Shuttle, which suffered a $100 million cut to a $2.5474 billion budget request. The VA/HUD folks also noted that they'd be just overjoyed, as this process goes forward this year, to entertain funding requests for additional Shuttle system upgrades. Reusable Flyback Booster program, funded by space science cuts, anyone? The "Science, Aeronautics and Technology" or "SAT" combined budget line for FY '00 of a requested $5.4247 billion was cut by $849 million; but this cut was entirely made against NASA's science programs, instead of against the entire five and a half billion SAT budget. NASA's FY '00 space science line item request was for $2.1966, and that line suffered a cut of $640.8 million. Killed outright was the SIRTIF mission (a cut of $100.8 million) as well as the CONTOUR Discovery Program mission (a cut of $50 million). Here's where you have to dig and where the Appropriators don't want anybody to know exactly what they've killed. A cut of $60 million was made to "Explorer Future Planning," which had bee requested to be $107.7 million (and which was $78.6 million in '99). This seemingly innocuous cut results in the cancellation of the HESSI and GALEX "SMEX" missions, as well s the CHIPS and IMEX "UNIX" Explorer missions. And don't forget to erase the TWINS and PLEXAS missions; they're gone now, too. In other words, the Explorer program is over, after a forty two year run. A cut of $60 million was made to "Discovery Program Future Planning." This had been requested to be funded at $78.5 million (it was $19.7 million in ' 99). This results in the stillborn death of the Deep Impact mission as well as the MESSENGER Mercury orbiter. A cut of $75 million (to $114.8 million) was made to "Mars Surveyor Program Future Planning." Stillborn again, then, is *every* mission after Mars '01. And if I were the Mars '01 folks, I wouldn't get comfortable just yet either. The "Supporting Research and Technology Program" was requested to be funded at $1.1521 billion; $320 million is cut -- $200 million from the "Technology Program," and $120 million from "Research." The Research cut is a simple one to explain - there just simply won't be any money to make sense out of any data by ongoing space missions. The $200 million Technology Program cut is less obvious, but it results in deep, grave damage nonetheless. What dies as a result of this cut is the Space Interferometry Mission; the Next Generation Space Telescope; The Planet Finder mission; any future missions to Europa; the proposed Pluto flyby; STEREO, Solar-B, CONSTELLATION-X, GLAST, FIRST, Solar Probe, and last, but not least, Space Technology-3. (ST-4, as you'll recall, was recently cancelled by NASA. Reminds you of the good old days, though, doesn't it?) But wait! There's more! We move on to the cuts in NASA's earth science enterprise. NASA's FY '00 earth science program budget request was $1.4591 billion, and it was cut by a total of $285 million. Al Gore's GLOBE program, $5 million, as well as Triana, $35 million, are gone. LightSAR, $20 million, is canceled, too. An additional $45 million was then cut from the Earth Probes program, taking it from a requested level of $138.2 million to $38.2 million (Triana and LightSAR were Earth Probes). But at least the Earth Probes budget has some bucks left; the VA/HUD appropriators eliminated outright the Earth System Science Pathfinders program (a cut of $75.2 million), which kills the GRACE and PICASSO missions, as well as the Vegetation Canopy Lidar mission and the CloudSat mission. Gone, too, is Volcam. The Earth Observing System line is reduced by $150 million from its requested level of $663.2 million, with $60 million being taken from the "Technology Infusion" program, which for FY '00 was requested to be $77.6. This kills Earth Observer-2, the "SPARCLE" mission outright. $40 million is cut from algorithm development ($127.4 million in FY '00), and, finally, the $53.9 "EOS Follow-On" effort is cut by $50 million. As the parting shot, the EOSDIS budget request of $231.5 million is cut $50 million. The House VA/HUD appropriators also made cuts to the "Mission Support" line item, which had been requested to be $2.4949 billion, cutting it by $225.6 million. The first cut is in "Construction of Facilities," where $67.1 million is cut from a $181 million budget request. Next, $100 million is cut from the $1.6469 billion "personal and related costs" account - layoffs and firings! Finally, "operations support" funding is reduced by $50 million from a budget request of $482.6 million. But after cuts come...adds! Pork Report. Here's a list of all of the "adds" made by the VA/HUD appropriators in order to make their bill fit under the balanced budget caps. Makes you proud to know that these folks are able to make those hard decisions to cut in order to balance the budget, eh? These adds.er.add up to a total of $119.8 million (!)..more than twice the cost of the canceled CONTOUR mission (to pick just one example)! 1. An increase of $10,000,000 for Space Solar Power. (Well, I like that one actually.) 2. An increase of $2,000,000 for the Science Center at Glendale Community College. (In Jerry Lewis' [R-CA40] district.) 3. An increase of $1,500,000 for the Louisville Science Center. (Anne Northup's [R-KY3] district.) 4. An increase of $1,500,000 for the Science Center Initiative at Ohio Wesleyan University. (Budget Committee Chair and deficit hawk John Kasich's [R-OH12] district. 5. An increase of $5,000,000 for the Polymer Energy Rechargeable System. (Huh?) 6. An increase of $2,000,000 for the center on life in extreme thermal environments at Montana State University in Bozeman. (Senator Conrad Burns is on the Senate Appropriations Committee.and even from across the Capitol, his arms reach out.) 7. An increase of $3,000,000 for the Adler Planetarium in Chicago, Illinois. (John Edward Porter's [R-IL10] district - but also close to House Speaker Denny Hastert's [R-IL14] home base too.) 8. NASA is directed to provide a total of $20,000,000 for fundamental physics research. (Isn't this the job of Fermilab? Hey. Wait a second. Isn't Fermilab in Speaker Hastert's district..? Hmmmm.) 9. An increase of $1,000,000 for the "Garden Machine" program at Texas Tech University. (Larry Combest's [R-TX19] district.) 10. An increase of $4,000,000 for the Space Radiation program at Loma Linda University Hospital. (Jerry Lewis' [R-CA40] district again. Love that bacon!) 11. An increase of $2,000,000 for the Neutron Therapy facility at Fermilab. (Shouldn't this be in the DoE budget? Or perhaps the NIH budget? Speaker Denney Hastert's district again. Sooo-eeee!) 12. An increase of $2,000,000 for a Remote Sensing Center for Geoinformatics at the University of Mississippi. (Roger Wicker's [R-MS1] district.) 13. An increase of $1,000,000 for the Advanced Tropical Remote Sensing Center of the National Center for Tropical Remote Sensing Applications and Resources at the Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science. (Ileana Ros-Lehtinen's [R-FL18] district.) 14. An increase of $10,000,000 for the Regional Application Center in Cayuga County, New York. (John McHugh's [R-NY24] district.) 15. An increase of $2,500,000 for a joint U.S./Italian space-based research initiative for the study and detection of forest fires. 16. An increase of $3,000,000 for continuation of programs at the American Museum of Natural History. (Finally! Democratic Pork! Jerrold Nadler's [D-NY8] New York City district. Getting things ready for Hillary.) 17. An increase of $1,500,000 for a remote sensing center at the Fulton-Montgomery Community College in New York. The center is to work through the Regional Application Center at Cayuga County, New York. (John McHugh's [R-NY24] district.) 18. An increase of $25,000,000 for Ultra Efficient Engine Technology. (Keeps the folks in the Ohio congressional delegation happy.this work goes to the NASA Lewis.er.Glenn.research center.) 19. An increase of $1,800,000 for phase two of the synthetic vision information system being tested at the Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport. (Something for Eddie Bernice Johnson's [D-TX30] district.) 20. An increase of $1,200,000 for continued support of the Dynamic Runway Occupancy Measurement System demonstration at the Seattle-Tacoma Airport. (Adam Smith [D-WA9]. Good to see that the Democrats are getting theirs along with all that Republican pork.) 21. An increase of $2,000,000 to facilitate the acquisition of a 16 beam SOCRATES system and integration of SOCRATES into the AVOSS program. 22. An increase of $5,000,000 for the Trailblazer program at the Glenn Research Center. (Keeps the Porklifter 100 program alive.) 23. An increase of $500,000 for the Institute for Software Research to continue its collaborative effort with NASA-Dryden, focusing on adaptive flight control research and fault tolerant systems. 24. An increase of $1,500,000 for the Software Optimization and Reuse Technology Program. 25. An increase of $2,000,000 for the establishment of the NASA-Illinois Technology Commercialization Center as an extension of the Midwest Regional Technology Transfer Center, to be located at the DuPage County Research Park. (Thomas Ewing [R-IL15].) 26. An increase of $1,000,000 for the Florida Technological Research and Development Authority to develop a technology-oriented business incubator in Homestead, Florida. (Carrie Meek [D-FL17].) 27. An increase of $2,000,000 for the Earth Alert program for a test of the system throughout the State of Maryland. (A sop to Senator Barbara Mikulski.think she won't still be upset after those cuts to Goddard?) 28. An increase of $1,500,000 for the National Technology Transfer Center, to bring total funding for the center up to $7,200,00. (This program is located in Wheeling, West Virginia.Senator Byrd brings home the bacon, even when it's the House marking up..!) 29. An increase of $6,500,000 for the National Space Grant College and Fellowship program, bringing the total funding for this program to $19,1 million. The FY '99 appropriated level for this program was also $19.1 million. 30. An increase of $1,500,000 for the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia for development of an exhibit on astronomy. 31. An increase of $1,000,000 for the Sci-Quest, the North Alabama Science Center. 32. An increase of $2,300,000 for the JASON Foundation's JASON XI expedition, "Going to Extremes." 33. An increase of $1,000,000 for the Carl Sagan Discovery Center at the Children's Hospital at Montefiore Medical Center. Jerrold Nadler's district again.and again, I'm sure that Hillary will be a happy camper over this. (Shouldn't this be in the NIH budget?) Sagan must be spinning in his grave. 34. An increase of $4,000,000 for the Texas Learning and Computational Center at the University of Houston. Tom DeLay's [R-TX22] district; a well known enemy of.pork! 35. An increase of $5,000,000 for the Space Science Museum and Educational Program at Downey, California. Stephen Horn's [R-CA38] district. 36. An increase of $2,000,000 for the Ohio View Project. Keep the Ohio delegation happy! 37. An increase of $2,000,000 for continued academic and infrastructure needs related to the computer sciences, mathematics and physics building at the University of Redlands. Jerry Lewis's [R-CA40] again. Last year he was the Chairman of the VA/HUD subcommittee. 38. An increase of $1,000,000 for the NASA Minority University Research Program to provide support for the establishment of a center of excellence in Mathematics and Science at Texas College. (Pete Sessions' [R-TX5] district.) The Big Picture On The VA/HUD Bill. The VA/HUD appropriations bill funds 21 agencies. The bill as written by the House VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee totals $93.79 billion, of which $23.334 billion was mandatory spending and $70.456 was "discretionary." The Administration's FY '00 budget request for this discretionary spending totaled $72.06 billion, and included $2.48 billion in "emergency spending" (bucks not subject to the budget caps) for FEMA. The House bill includes these emergency FEMA dollars, and it also includes $3 million in emergency spending for veteran's health care. The House VA/HUD appropriators added $1 billion to veteran's medical health care of "normal" money, too, for a total of $18.3 billion. The President had asked for $17.3 billion, which was exactly the same amount that had been appropriated in FY '99. HUD got $2 billion more than in FY '99, but $2 billion less than the President's FY '00 budget request: $26.1 billion. EPA received $7.3 billion from the House VA/HUD critters, $106 million more than the President asked for. NSF got a mark of $3.646 billion for FY '00, $25 million less than it received in FY '99. FEMA got $3.36 billion for its FY '00 mark. The remaining 14 agencies in the bill total up close to $2.3 billion combined. Model Letter to Use. Dear [Fill in name of Representative or Senator]: As a citizen vitally interested in my country's exploration of the solar system, and in its pursuit of space science, I am extremely distressed over Congress' intention to cut NASA's FY '00 science budget by $1.3 billion dollars - the largest single cut in NASA's history! NASA has sustained budget cuts for eight years in a row. This proposed $1.3 billion cut would end science at NASA after the year 2000. Is this the way to welcome the 21st Century? I urge you to totally reject this unprecedented cut and to fund NASA's requested FY '00 budget in full. Sincerely, NAME ADDRESS House Appropriations Committee Members Who Are NOT on VA/HUD. (Addresses are "xxx CHOB" or "xxx RHOB" or "xxx LHOB" followed by "Washington DC 20515.") ("RMM" is "Ranking Minority Member.") Ralph Regula (R-OH16) 202/225-3876 vox 202/225-3059 fax 330/489-4414 district office 2309 RHOB www.house.gov/regula/ web site Jerry Lewis (R-CA40) 202/225-5861 vox 202/225-6498 fax 2112 RHOB www.house.gov/jerrylewis/ web site John Edward Porter (R-IL10) 202/225-4835 vox 202/225-0157 fax 847/662-0101 district office 2373 RHOB www.house.gov/porter/ web site Harold Rogers (R-KY5) 202/225-4601 vox 202/225-0940 fax 606/679-8346 district office 2470 RHOB www.house.gov/rogers/ web site Joe Skeen (R-NM2) 202/225-2365 vox 202/225-9599 fax 505/527-1771 district office 2302 RHOB www.house.gov/skeen/ web site Frank R. Wolf (R-VA10) 202/225-5136 vox 202/225-0437 fax 703/709-5800 district office 241 CHOB www.house.gov/wolf/ web site Jim Kolbe (R-AZ5) 202/225-2542 vox 202/225-0378 fax 520/881-3588 district office 2266 RHOB jim.kolbe@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/kolbe/ web site Ron Packard (R-CA48) 202/225-3906 vox 202/225-0134 fax 949/496-2343 district office 2372 RHOB rep.packard@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/packard/ web site Sonny Callahan (R-AL1) 202/225-4931 vox 202/225-0562 fax 334/690-2811 district office 2466 RHOB sonny.callahan@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/callahan/ web site Charles H. Taylor (R-NC11) 202/225-6401 vox 202/226-6405 fax 704/251-1988 district office 231 CHOB RepCharles.Taylor@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/charlestaylor web site Ernest J. Istook, Jr. (R-OK5) 202/225-2132 vox 202/226-1463 fax 405/942-3636 district office 2402 RHOB istook@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/istook/ web site Henry Bonilla (R-TX23) 202/225-4511 vox 202/225-2237 fax 210/697-9055 district office 1427 LHOB www.house.gov/bonilla web site Dan Miller (R-FL13) 202/225-5015 vox 202/226-0828 fax 941/951-6643 district office 102 CHOB miller13@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/danmiller/ web site Jay Dickey (R-AR4) 202/225-3772 vox 202/225-1314 fax 501/623-5800 district office 2453 RHOB talk2jay@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/dickey/ web site Jack Kingston (R-GA1) 202/225-5831 vox 202/226-2269 fax 912/352-0101 district office 1034 LHOB www.house.gov/kingston/ web site Michael P. Forbes (D-NY1) 202/225-3826 vox 202/225-3143 fax 516/345-9000 district office 125 CHOB mike.forbes@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/forbes/ web site George R. Nethercutt, Jr. (R-WA5) 202/225-2006 vox 202/225-3392 fax 509/353-2374 district office 1527 LHOB george.nethercutt-pub@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/nethercutt/ web site Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-CA51) 202/225-5452 vox 202/225-2558 fax 760/737-8438 district office 2238 RHOB www.house.gov/cunningham/ web site Todd Tiahrt (R-KS4) 202/225-6216 vox 202/225-3489 fax 316/262-8992 district office 428 CHOB tiahrt@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gove/tiahrt/ web site Zach Wamp (R-TN3) 202/225-3271 vox 202/225-3494 fax 423/894-7400 district office 423 CHOB www.house.gov/wamp/ web site Tom Latham (R-IA5) 202/225-5476 vox 202/225-3301 fax 712/277-2114 district office 324 CHOB latham.ia05@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/latham/ web site Robert Aderholt (R-AL4) 202/225-4876 vox 202/225-5587 fax 205/221-2310 district office 1007 LHOB www.house.gov/aderholt/ web site Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO8) 202/225-4404 vox 202/226-0326 fax 573/335-0101 district office 132 CHOB joann.emerson@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/emerson/ web site Kay Granger (R-TX12) 202/225-5071 vox 202/225-5683 fax 817/338-0909 district office 435 CHOB texax.granger@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/granger/ web site John E. Peterson (R-PA5) 202/225-5121 vox 202/225-5796 fax 814/827-3985 district office 307 CHOB john.peterson@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/johnpeterson/ web site John P. Murtha (D-PA12) 202/225-2065 vox 202/225-5709 fax 814/535-2642 district office 2423 RHOB murtha@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/murtha/ web site Norman D. Dicks (D-WA6) 202/225-5916 vox 202/226-1176 fax 253/593-6536 district office 2467 RHOB Martin Olav Sabo (D-MN5) 202/225-4755 vox 202/225-4886 fax 612/664-8000 district office 2336 RHOB martin.sabao@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/sabo/ web site Julian C. Dixon (D-CA32) 202/225-7084 vox 202/225-4091 fax 323/678-5424 district office 2252 RHOB Steny H. Hoyer (D-MD5) 202/225-4131 vox 202/225-4300 fax 301/474-0119 district office 1705 LHOB www.house.gov/hoyer/ web site Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) 202/225-4965 vox 202/225-8259 fax 415/556-4862 district office 2457 RHOB sf.nancy@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/pelosi/ web site Peter J. Visclosky (D-IN1) 202/225-2461 vox 202/225-2493 fax 219/884-1177 district office 2313 RHOB www.house.gov/visclosky/ web site Nita M. Lowey (D-NY18) 202/225-6506 vox 202/225-0546 fax 914/428-1707 district office 2421 RHOB nita.lowey@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/lowey/ web site Jose E. Serrano (D-NY16) 202/225-4361 vox 202/225-6001 fax 718/538-5400 district office 2342 RHOB jserrano@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/serrano/ web site Rosa L. DeLauro (D-CT3) 202/225-3661 vox 202/225-4890 fax 203/562-3718 district office 436 CHOB www.house.gov/delauro web site James P. Moran (D-VA8) 202/225-4376 vox 202/225-0017 fax 703/971-4700 district office 2239 RHOB jim.moran@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/moran/ web site John W. Olver (D-MA1) 202/225-5335 vox 202/226-1224 fax 413/442-0946 district office 1027 LHOB john.olver@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/olver/ web site Ed Pastor (D-AZ2) 202/225-4065 vox 202/225-1655 fax 520/726-2234 district office 2465 RHOB ed.pastor@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/pastor/ web site Chet Edwards (D-TX11) 202/225-6105 vox 202/225-0350 fax 254/752-9600 district office 2459 RHOB www.house.gov/edwards/ web site James E. Clyburn (D-SC6) 202/225-3315 vox 202/225-2313 fax 843/965-5578 district office 319 CHOB jclyburn@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/clyburn/ web site Maurice D. Hinchey (D-NY26) 202/225-6335 vox 202/226-0774 fax 607/273-1388 district office 2431 RHOB mhinchey@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/hinchey/ web site Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-CA33) 202/225-1766 vox 202/226-0350 fax 213/628-9230 district office 2435 RHOB www.house.gov/roybal-allard/ web site Sam Farr (D-CA17) 202/225-2861 vox 202/225-6791 fax 408/429-1976 district office 1221 LHOB samfarr@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/farr/ web site Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. (D-IL2) 202/225-0773 vox 202/225-0899 fax 708/798-6000 district office 313 CHOB www.jessejacksonjr.org web site Carolyn C. Kilpatrick (D-MI15) 202/225-2261 vox 202/225-5730 fax 313/965-9004 district office 503 CHOB www.house.gov/kilpatrick/ web site Allen Boyd (D-FL2) 202/225-5235 vox 202/225-5615 fax 850/561-3979 district office 107 CHOB rep.boyd@mail.house.gov email address www.house.gov/boyd/ web site # end # From VM Tue Aug 3 11:58:34 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["42282" "Tuesday" "3" "August" "1999" "13:46:13" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "926" "starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 1" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 42282 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27980 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27974 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27670 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p323.gnt.com [204.49.91.131]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA09956 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:46:54 -0500 Message-ID: <001001bedde0$7ca05e10$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 1 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:46:13 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: owner-spaceviews@wayback.com [mailto:owner-spaceviews@wayback.com]On Behalf Of jeff@spaceviews.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 3:22 PM Subject: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 1 [ SpaceViews (tm) newsletter ] [ see end of message for our NEW address to subscribe / unsubscribe ] S P A C E V I E W S Issue 1999.08.01 1999 August 1 http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/08/ *** News *** House Slashes NASA Budget Shuttle Deploys Chandra Telescope Loose Plug Caused Shuttle Hydrogen Leak Lunar Prospector Ends Mission with Crash Deep Space 1 Completes Asteroid Flyby Mir Cosmonauts Make Final Spacewalks Turbopump Failure Cause of Proton Crash Roton Prototype Makes First Flight Test "Richter Scale" of Asteroid Impact Threats Announced SpaceViews Event Horizon Other News *** Articles *** Getting Oriented in Weightlessness: Results of a Space Shuttle Experiment *** CyberSpace *** CyberSpace Web Reviews Editors Note: If you use Netscape Netcenter's "My Netscape" start page, you can now incorporate SpaceViews headlines into your start page along with other news, sports, weather, and other information! To add a SpaceViews box to your page, use the URL: http://my.netscape.com/addchannel.tmpl?service=net.900 For more information about the My Netscape service, check out http://home.netscape.com. As always, for the latest SpaceViews news, visit http://www.spaceviews.com. - Jeff Foust Editor, SpaceViews jeff@spaceviews.com *** News *** House Slashes NASA Budget NASA is facing some of its worst budget cuts in its history after an appropriations subcommittee of the House of Representatives voted Monday, July 26, to cut more than $1.3 billion, or nearly 10 percent, from the agency's proposed fiscal year 2000 budget. Although the full House Appropriations Committee voted Friday, July 30 to restore $400 million to NASA's FY 2000 budget, the agency is still facing a cut of more than $900 million from President Clinton's original request and $1 billion from its 1999 budget. The original cuts disproportionately affected space science, accounting for $640 million of the original $1.3 billion, or 29 percent of the original space science budget. If enacted, the cuts would have canceled the Space Infrared Telescope Facility (SIRTF) space telescope, the Contour comet mission, future Discovery and Explorer missions, and Mars missions beyond 2001, as well as research into future missions to Europa, Pluto, and elsewhere. The full House Appropriations Committee did vote to restore $400 million to the space science budget by killing the Americorps community service program. That funding will be used to restore SIRTF, Mars exploration, and some technology and research funds. Also heavily hit was NASA's earth sciences programs, with $150 million cut into the Earth Observing System as well as cancellation of the LightSAR radar mission and the Triana Earth-observing camera. On the other hand, the space station and space shuttle programs survived with a combined cut of just $250 million. The space station budget actually still increases from 1999 to 2000, but only by $100 million instead of the planned $200 million. A chorus of protests, from NASA, members of Congress, and space activists, was heard after the original cuts were announced. "These cuts would gut space exploration," NASA administrator Dan Goldin said. "They may force the closure of one to three NASA centers, and significant layoffs would most certainly follow." Because the cuts are so tightly focused on Earth and space sciences, the centers threatened with closure include the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and the Goddard Space Flight Center, two facilities usually not considered prime targets for closure in the past. "If NASA were faced with the reality of having more centers than it needed, I would certainly expect JPL would be on the list," JPL deputy director Larry Dumas told the Pasadena Star-News newspaper. Those claims were disputed by Rep. James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Science Committee. "Their claims that NASA will have to close centers and initiate layoffs... are disingenuous at best and purposely inflammatory at worst," he claimed. "These are scare tactics, pure and simple, and should be rejected as such." NASA's budget has been slowly but steadily declining throughout Goldin's tenure as NASA administrator, but the proposed cuts are far sharper than anything the agency has experienced before. "Up until now, NASA has always stepped up to the budgetary challenge. This time the NASA team plans to fight," Goldin said. "I won't feel better until every nickel is restored." The National Space Society issued an alert asking its members to contact members of the House Appropriations Committee. "We cannot stand by and allow the House of Representatives to act so irresponsibly and play politics with the future of our national space program," the society said in a statement. The full House of Representatives is expected to take up the appropriations bill this week. The Senate has yet to act on appropriations legislation for the space agency, and may not do so until after the August recess. President Clinton has also promised in the past to veto any appropriations bill that did not include funding for his Americorps program, a potential stumbling block for NASA funding. The long legislative process ahead means there is still time for funding to be restored, or additional cuts to be made. "This is only the beginning of the process," Rep. James Walsh (R-NY), chair of the appropriations subcommittee that made the initial devastating cuts, told the Associated Press. "We're at about the bottom of the third in a nine-inning ball game." Shuttle Deploys Chandra Telescope Despite some problems during launch, the shuttle Columbia successfully completed its mission last month to deploy the Chandra X-Ray Telescope. Columbia lifted on on mission STS-93 at 12:31 am EDT (0431 UT) Friday, July 23. The launch had been delayed one day by thunderstorms, and two days before that when a sensor erroneously detected a buildup of hydrogen in an engine compartment seven second before liftoff. The crew, commanded by Eileen Collins, the first woman to command a shuttle mission, completed its primary task seven hours after launch when it deployed the Chandra X-Ray Telescope. The telescope's Inertial Upper Stage (IUS) fired perfectly one hour later, placing the telescope in an elliptical orbit. The telescope's onboard thrusters have been tweaking the orbit into its final version, between 10,000 and 140,000 km (6,200 and 87,000 mi.) above the Earth. After the telescope was deployed, the five-person crew turned their attention to a suite of secondary experiments, ranging from a small ultraviolet telescope mounted in the shuttle to a test of a new hinge for deploying solar arrays to biological tests on the effects of microgravity. While much of the attention during the early phase of the mission focused on Chandra and on Collins, later on in the mission the focus changed to a series of problems that took place during the launch. A short circuit five seconds after launch disabled the controllers for two of the three main engines. Backup controllers took over, but additional malfunctions would have shut down at least one of the engines, requiring an abort and emergency landing. At a post-flight press conference, Collins said she originally thought the warning lights that appeared when the controllers failed were more ordinary lights she had seen on previous launches, then reconsidered when mission controllers advised her and pilot Jeff Ashby to shut down other systems in an effort to keep them from being taken out by the short. "I thought, 'This isn't right, this isn't what I was expecting,'" Collins said. "The next thoughts that are going through my mind are, 'What's our abort capability? If we lose an engine, where are we going to go?'" At the end of the launch, the main engines shut down a split-second early, placing the shuttle in an orbit 11 km (7 mi.) lower than planned. The early shutdown was traced to a leak of hydrogen coolant from one of the main engine nozzles during launch (see accompanying article below.) The launch problems had no effect on the landing, which took place at 11:20 pm EDT July 27 (0320 UT July 28) at the Kennedy Space Center. Loose Plug Caused Shuttle Hydrogen Leak A loose plug fell through an engine nozzle, puncturing three coolant tubes and causing the hydrogen leak noticed during the STS-93 shuttle mission, NASA investigators said Friday, July 30. According to investigators, the plug, used to seal a liquid oxygen injector tube, fell off as the main engines on the shuttle Columbia were ignited six seconds before liftoff. The engine thrust accelerated the tiny plug, no larger than a small nail, to supersonic speeds as it crashed into the size of the nozzle, weakening the tubes and causing them to rupture. The ruptured tubes allowed liquid hydrogen, used to cool the engine nozzles before being consumed as fuel by the engines themselves, to leak from the shuttle. More than 1,000 kg (2,200 lbs.) of hydrogen leaked out during the ascent into orbit. The leak caused the engine to run up to 55 degrees Celsius (100 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer than normal, in turn consuming an additional 1,800 kg (4,000 lbs.) of liquid oxygen. That led to the shutdown of the main engines a split-second early, placing the shuttle in an orbit 11 km (7 mi.) lower than planned. Shuttle officials said that the leak could not have caused an explosion, and did not immediately endanger the shuttle. However, if the leak had been larger, the engine temperature would have increased to the point where the engine shut down, forcing an emergency landing either back at the Kennedy Space Center or the transatlantic abort site in Africa. Bill Gerstenmaier, shuttle program manager, told Florida Today that 20 to 40 coolant lines would have had to rupture to overheat and shut down the engine. The plug that damaged the coolant lines was one of two installed to plug a small injector tube, one of several hundred that feed liquid oxygen into the main engine. The tube had become damaged and was plugged to prevent oxygen from leaking and inadvertently mixing with liquid hydrogen. The other plug held, NASA officials said. An investigation into the coolant leak and the exact series of events that caused it is ongoing. Also still under investigation is an electrical short five seconds after launch that disabled two of the six computers that serve as engine controllers. Technicians are expected to take some time to check Columbia's wiring to find the exact location of the short circuit. It's not currently known if either problem will push back the next shuttle launch, Endeavour's mid-September launch on STS-99, a radar mapping mission. Lunar Prospector Ends Mission with Crash The Lunar Prospector spacecraft ended its highly-successful 18-month mission with a deliberate crash into a crater near the lunar south pole July 31 in a search for water. Prospector crashed near the lunar south pole at 5:52 am EDT (0952 UT) July 31, project officials reported. The impact took place a minute later that previously planned because a thruster burn early Friday that placed the spacecraft in an elliptical orbit to prepare for the impact was slightly stronger than planned. Neither amateurs nor professionals reported seeing a plume of dust that some thought the spacecraft's impact would raise. The fact that no impact plume was seen, NASA officials said, actually increases the likelihood that Prospector hit its desired impact site deep within a shaded crater near the lunar south pole. Observations by a large group of terrestrial telescopes, including the Keck Observatory and telescopes in Arizona and Texas, as well as the Hubble Space Telescope and the Submillimeter Wave Astronomy Satellite (SWAS), were made in a search for water that would have been thrown up by the impact. Analysis of the data is expected to take up to several months. "Once again, Prospector has done everything we have asked of it," said Alan Binder, principal investigator for Lunar Prospector. "This mission provided ten times better data than we expected. The spacecraft performed flawlessly to its very end." In its final days, the spacecraft had to survive a partial lunar eclipse July 28 that kept the spacecraft out of the Sun for several hours. To conserve the limited battery power on the spacecraft non-essential systems, including most of the scientific instruments, were turned off. Project officials said the spacecraft made it through the eclipse with no problems. Prospector was crashed into the Moon at the end of its 18-month mission in an effort to directly detect any water ice that is believed to be hidden in permanently-shadowed craters near the lunar poles. Prospector was targeted to impact in one such shadowed area of a 50-km (30-mi.) crater near the lunar south pole, although the exact site of impact was not known. Scientists cautioned that the odds of success for this impact were small, no more than 10 percent, according to David Goldstein, the University of Texas scientist who proposed the crash. If water was detected, however, it would lay to rest nearly all doubts that ice exists at the lunar poles. Two Stanford University scientists earlier in July cautioned, though, that any water near the lunar poles could be locked up in hydrated minerals similar to concrete. The impact, they believed could librate water from those minerals that does not exist in free form on or near the lunar surface. The crash also deposited on the Moon the ashes of the late geologist Eugene Shoemaker, a pioneer in lunar research in the 1960s who was killed in an auto accident in Australia two years ago. A sample of his cremated ashes were included on the Lunar Prospector spacecraft, fulfilling a desire he had to travel to the Moon. Deep Space 1 Completes Asteroid Flyby NASA's Deep Space 1 spacecraft capped off its technology-development mission with a successful flyby of a small asteroid July 29, although a mispointed camera may mean no close-up images of the asteroid. DS1 passed within about 15 kilometers (9 miles) of asteroid 9969 Braille, formerly known as 1992 KD, at 12:46 am EDT (0446 UT) July 29. Mission officials initially reported the flyby was a success, returning images and other data about the small asteroid. However, mission scientists reported Thursday afternoon, July 29, that DS1's camera was misaimed during the closest portion of the flyby and did not return any closeups of the asteroid. The spacecraft used an onboard navigation system called AutoNav to guide itself past the asteroid safely. AutoNav was one of a dozen technologies tested by the spacecraft during the mission. "This is a dramatic finale to an amazingly successful mission," said Marc Rayman, deputy mission manager. "With AutoNav's successful piloting of the spacecraft, we've completed the testing and validation of the 12 new technologies onboard and possibly acquired important science data, including photos." Mission officials later told the Associated Press that the camera lost the asteroid about 20 minutes before closest approach, when the spacecraft was still more than 16,000 km (10,000 mi.) from the asteroid. "This is analogous to mispointing a camera and getting a blank field of view," project scientist Robert Nelson told the AP. Data from other instruments initially appeared to be okay, however. Later reports indicated that some infrared images were obtained fairly close to, but not at, the time of closest approach. No images have yet been released, but a press conference has been scheduled for August 3 to report on the quantity and quality of the science data returned during the flyby. The flyby was not without problems. About 16 hours before closest approach a software glitch triggered a "safing event", when the spacecraft shut down nonessential systems and waited for instructions from Earth. The problem was corrected about six hours later. "This has been by far the most challenging, dramatic and stressful day on the project," said Rayman. "The last 16 hours before the flyby were really, really exciting. We had the safing event, we recovered from it and we managed to squeeze in a trajectory correction maneuver to update Deep Space 1's flight path." Any scientific results will be considered an added bonus for the mission, whose primary purpose is technology development. Since its launch in October, DS1 tested technologies ranging from an ion engine to advanced solar panels to an autonomous control system. The mission is officially scheduled to end in September. There has been past discussion of an extended mission, which would include two comet flybys in 2001, but the precarious nature of NASA's space sciences budget make the probability of obtaining such funding unlikely. The asteroid received its new name just a few days before the flyby. The name was selected by the discoverers of the asteroid, Eleanor Helin and David Lawrence, from a set of finalists chosen by a Planetary Society panel as part of a competition run by the organization. Mir Cosmonauts Make Final Spacewalks Two Russian cosmonauts made two spacewalks late last month that are likely to be the final spacewalks performed outside the Mir space station. Cosmonauts Viktor Afanasyev and Sergei Avdeyev spent six hours outside Mir on July 23 in a largely unsuccessful effort. They attempted to deploy a large Russian-Georgian antenna designed to communicate with other satellites, but were unable to open the antenna after an extended effort. They also attempted to search the exterior of part of the station in a search for an air leak first noticed several weeks ago, but were unable to locate the source of the leak. Afanasyev and Avdeyev performed a second spacewalk July 28. During that five-hour, 22-minute spacewalk, they were finally able to fully deploy the communications antenna. They also also installed equipment to study the effects of electric and magnetic fields on the station, as well as equipment which the Russian Interfax news agency described as being able to detect air leaks from the station, although the two did not resume their search for an existing leak from the station that they attempted in their previous spacewalk. During both spacewalks the third member of the Mir crew, French cosmonaut Jean-Pierre Haignere, remained in the station and monitored the progress of the spacewalkers. Russian officials downplayed any mention of the leak, saying it was not serious to the current crew. However, officials said a week earlier that if the leak was not fixed, the station would be uninhabitable within three months. That shouldn't pose a problem for the current crew, which is now scheduled to depart the station August 28. The station will be left unoccupied after that, with the possible exception of a short-term visit to Mir in December that Russian officials discussed earlier this year. Unless private funding can be found, Russia will deorbit Mir in early 2000 over the Pacific Ocean. Turbopump Failure Cause of Proton Crash A fire in the turbopump of one of the engines in the second stage of a Proton booster caused it to crash several minutes after launch July 5, Russian officials revealed this week. In an interview with the Russian Izvestia news service July 27, Anatoli Kiselev, Director-General of Khrunichev State Research, said that a faulty weld in the turbopump triggered a fire which destroyed the second stage and caused the rest of the booster to crash downrange from its Baikonur, Kazakhstan launch site. "The fire was started by a stray aluminum particle in a seam between the cover and the apparatus as a result of a defect in a weld," Kiselev told Izvestia. Such stray particles can be blown in by a turbopump or enter though the fueling equipment as a result of personnel neglect. Using "super advanced U.S. equipment" to simulate the accident, Kiselev said a particle weighing as little as 0.2 grams is sufficient to start a fire, and that a weld as little as 25 percent below the norm can harbor such particles. Telemetry returned by the rocket showed that the first four minutes and 37 seconds of its July 5th flight were normal. At that point, however, the number three engine of the second stage destroyed itself in a fire, also taking out portions of the rear of the stage and the bottom of the second stage fuel tank. Within a half-second the fuel and oxidizer tanks of the stage depressurized, destroying the stage. The third stage and the Breeze-M upper stage, making its inaugural flight, survived the destruction of the second stage but did not have enough velocity to reach orbit. Aerodynamic and heat loads destroyed these stages at an altitude of 30 km (18 mi.), scattering debris over portions of Siberia and Kazakhstan. Kiselev said the Russian State Commission investigating the launch failure will recommend that the turbopump design be upgraded, and a filter be added that can catch spurious particles that can start such fires. The fueling equipment may also be upgraded. "We were planning to perform all these upgrades in 2000 anyway, but this failure presses us to do it earlier than we expected," Kiselev said. "An important thing is that this failure is of a singular manufacturing nature," he added. "The failure has not lowered our estimate of Proton reliability beyond the reference level," which is a success rate of 96 percent. The timeframe for these upgrades, and the return to flight of the Proton, is unknown. Kiselev said he believes an additional four Western payloads can be launched on Protons by the end of the year. This would require Kazakhstan to lift its ban on Proton launches which it put into place after the crash. Negotiations between Russian and Kazakhstan on the Proton ban are ongoing. A Proton will also be used late this year to launch the Zvezda service module for the International Space Station. International Launch Services, the joint venture between Lockheed Martin, Khrunichev, and Energia, said the Russian State Commission will likely release their formal report on the launch accident in the first or second week in August. They released the Izvestia report as they cannot share technical information with Khrunichev until the U.S. federal government approves a license for them to do so. Roton Prototype Makes First Flight Test A prototype of Rotary Rocket Company's Roton reusable launch vehicle made its first test flight Friday, July 23, hovering a few meters off the ground for several minutes. The Roton Atmospheric Test Vehicle (ATV) successfully performed three takeoff and landing maneuvers during the flight test, which lasted 4 minutes and 40 seconds, just under the planned 5-minute duration. The Roton ATV hovered at an altitude of about 2.4 meters (8 feet) during the test, within the planned range of 1.5 to 3 meters (5 to 10 feet). "It is this demonstrated performance that provides creditability to Rotary Rocket's aims of achieving low-cost space flight," said Rotary Rocket president and CEO Gary Hudson. The flight test was performed with a crew of two onboard: pilot Dr. Marti Sarigul-Klijn, a retired Navy commander and Roton Chief Engineer, with Brian Binnie, also a retired Navy commander and Roton Flight Test Director, as copilot. Both are experienced test pilots. The test flight took place Friday morning, July 23, at Rotary Rocket's facilities in Mojave, California, but was not reported until Wednesday, July 28. Rotary officials had declined comment on the test flight until Wednesday's announcement. The Roton ATV is a full-scale prototype designed to test the flight characteristics of the Roton launch vehicle in the atmosphere, particularly during approach and landing. The vehicle has no rocket engines but does have a helicopter-like rotor, with small thrusters on the tips of the blades, that is used to propel the vehicle in the atmosphere. The ATV will eventually be used on longer flights from altitudes of over 1,000 meters (3,300 feet) to test the approach and landing characteristics of the vehicle. No timeline for those tests were given by Rotary officials. A future test vehicle, the Roton PTV, will be used to test the launch characteristics of the vehicle. That version will incorporate a rocket engine based on NASA's Fastrac engine under development. The company selected the Fastrac over its own RocketJet engine design during a reorganization in June. The company plans to have the full version of the Roton single-stage reusable launch vehicle enter commercial service in 2001, funding permitting. "Richter Scale" of Asteroid Impact Threats Announced The International Astronomical Union has officially endorsed Thursday, July 22, a new system of communicating the threat of potential collisions by near-Earth asteroids. The Torino Scale, endorsed by the IAU at the United Nations UNISPACE III meeting in Vienna, is a 0-10 scale designed to easily express the danger posed by a near-Earth asteroid collision. The scale is named after the Italian city where it was adopted by an IAU working group in June. The scale is analogous to the Richter Scale used to measure the intensity of earthquakes as well as similar scales to gauge the strength of hurricanes and tornadoes. However, the Torino scale takes into account both the potential damage an asteroid could do as well as the probability of a collision. On the Torino scale, an asteroid measuring 0 would have no chance of hitting Earth, or would be unable to do reach the ground if it encountered the Earth. An asteroid measuring 10 would be certain to hit the Earth and cause global damage. An 8, 9 or 10 on the Torino scale would correspond to a certain collision of varying magnitudes. Lower numbers would be used to describe less certain impacts of varying strengths. Currently all known asteroids measure a 0 on the Torino scale. Some asteroids, such as 1999 AN10, at one time measured a 1 on the scale, meaning that they had about an equal probability of striking the Earth as a random, undiscovered object of similar size. These asteroid have been downgraded, though, after new observations led to refined orbits that reduced or eliminated any impact probability. The scale was developed by Richard Binzel, a planetary astronomy professor at MIT, as a way to better communicate the real dangers -- or lack of danger -- posed by near-Earth asteroids. "Scientists haven't done a very good job of communicating to the public the relative danger of collision with an asteroid," he said. "The Torino scale should help us clearly inform but not confuse the public." An asteroid impact, Binzel said, "is a case of a high-consequence but low-probability event. It's difficult in human nature to figure out what level of anxiety we should assign to an approaching asteroid." The adoption of the Torino scale comes at a time when the rate of near-Earth asteroid discoveries has sharply increased, thanks to sophisticated detection systems like the LINEAR project at MIT's Lincoln Laboratory and long-term searches like Spacewatch in Arizona. The increased discovery rate has led to impact "scares" like 1999 AN10 this year and 1997 XF11 last year, when newly-discovered asteroids were found to have small but non-zero impact probabilities in the coming decades. Those probabilities decreased after new observations led to refined orbits. "What I find especially important about the Torino impact scale is that it comes in time to meet future needs as the rate of discoveries of near-Earth objects continues to increase," said Hans Rickman, IAU Assistant General Secretary. Binzel hopes that the Torino scale will make as easy to communicate the threat of an asteroid collision as the Richter scale does to describe the intensity of an earthquake. "If you tell a Californian that an earthquake registering one on the Richter scale was going to hit tomorrow, he would say, 'So what?'" he said. "If you were talking about a six, that would be different." SpaceViews Event Horizon August 4 Ariane 4 launch of the Indonesian Telekom-1 communications satellite from Kourou, French Guiana at 6:48 pm EDT (2248 UT) August 12-15 Mars Society 1999 Conference, Boulder, CO August 14 Galileo flyby of the Jovian moon Callisto August 15 Delta 2 launch of four Globlastar satellites from Cape Canaveral, Florida at 1:09 am EDT (0509 UT) August 18 Cassini flyby of Earth September 23-26 Space Frontier Conference 8, Los Angeles, CA Other News Delta 2 Launch: A Delta 2 successfully launched four more Globalstar communication satellites early Sunday, July 25. The Delta 2 lifted off from pad 17A at Cape Canaveral at 3:46 am EDT (0746 UT), at the beginning of the first of two available launch windows. The launch was the third Delta 2 launch of Globalstar satellites in a six-week period, after launches on June 10 and July 10. A fourth launch, the last in this cluster of launches, is planned for mid-August, after the Cape Canaveral launch facilities are reopened after range modernization work. With the July 25 launch, 32 Globalstar satellites are now in orbit, 20 from four Delta 2 launches and 12 from three Soyuz launches. Three more Soyuz and one more Delta 2 will be used this fall to complete the 48-satellite constellation plus fly four on-orbit spares. Atlas 3 Loses Payload: The first launch of Lockheed Martin's new Atlas 3 booster will likely be delayed after it lost its first payload to Ariane July 26. Loral Space and Communications announced that it would launch its Telstar 7 communications satellite on an Ariane 4 in September, and not on the first flight of the Atlas 3A as originally planned. The launch of the Atlas 3A, an upgraded version of the Atlas 2 using Russian-designed RD-180 main engines and a Centaur upper stage, has been delayed while an investigation continued into the failure of an RL-10 engine on a Delta 3 launch in May similar to the engine used by the Centaur. Titan's Hydrocarbon Oceans: New images from the Keck Observatory released July 28 have provided the best view yet of Titan's surface and show evidence of possible oceans of ethane, methane, or other hydrocarbons. The images, taken at infrared wavelengths that can peer through the moon's thick smog, show evidence of bright and dark regions on the surface that scientists interpret as areas of land and ocean, respectively. The images are not the first view of the surface of the moon: The Hubble Space Telescope provided similar views at near-infrared wavelengths in 1994. However, the Keck images are sharper, thanks to a process known as "speckle interferometry" that combines a large number of short snapshots are processed together to remove the blurring effects of Earth's turbulent atmosphere. Keeping Track of Near-Earth Asteroids: Despite several new search efforts and a decrease in the estimated overall population, most of the near-Earth asteroids (NEAs) that pose the greatest threat to the Earth have yet to be discovered, astronomers reported at a conference Tuesday, July 27. While new observations have led some astronomers to believe that there are only 500-1000 NEAs 1 km (0.6-mi.) or larger in diameter, only 15-20% of these NEAs have been discovered. At current discovery rates the rest will be found in 20 to 40 years, although quadrupling the discovery rate should allow 90% of these NEAs to be discovered in the next 10 years, the goal of the proposed Spaceguard program. Interesting NEAs: Some NEAs that have already been discovered have proven to be interesting objects. Images and other data collected by the Near-Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR) spacecraft's flyby of Eros show the asteroid is likely a solid body, and not a rubble pile like other asteroids. Two papers published in the July 23 issue of Science show that Eros more closely resembles the main-belt asteroid Ida rather than Mathilde, a rubble-pile asteroid NEAR flew by in 1997. A much smaller NEA, 1998 KY26, is also likely a solid body, in part because its 10-minute rotation period makes it the most rapidly-rotating solar system body yet discovered. A compositional analysis of the asteroid, based on telescopic observations in June, show that the asteroid is a carbonaceous chondrite, rich with water. "This asteroid is quite literally an oasis for future space explorers," said JPL's Steve Ostro. Indemnification, Russia Legislation: The House Science Committee's space subcommittee passed bills Thursday, July 29 that would extend commercial launch indemnification and would tie any NASA funding of Russia's space program to missile nonproliferation efforts. HR 2607, the Commercial Space Transportation Competitiveness Act of 1999, would extend for five years the indemnification on catastrophic launch accidents that is currently set to expire at the end of 1999. HR 1883, Iran Non-Proliferation Act of 1999., would prevent NASA from sending any money to the Russian Space Agency in the event that the administration determined that Russia was helping Iran develop long-range ballistic missiles. The subcommittee passed two amendments that would allow funding for safety reasons, or to complete and build the space station's service module, even if a ban was in effect. *** Articles *** Getting Oriented in Weightlessness: Results of a Space Shuttle Experiment by Dr. Charles M. Oman "What's up?" is not a trivial question for astronauts in weightlessness. Gravitational "down" cues are missing, so they must depend on vision to maintain their spatial orientation. Many astronauts seem to maintain a local "subjective" vertical frame of reference, which accounts for their occasional reports of inversion illusions, visual reorientation illusions, and fear of falling during space walks, all of which can sometimes trigger space motion sickness. Previous Spacelab studies using rolling dotted cylinder displays showed increased susceptibility to roll circular vection (a visually induced motion illusion) during the first week in space. However, information on linear vection susceptibility, and perceptual responses to structured visual scenes remained important pieces of the scientific puzzle which were missing prior to Neurolab. The availability of the Neurolab Virtual Environment Generator on the STS-90 shuttle mission in April 1998 allowed us to employ a wider repertoire of stimuli, including not only dotted cylinders, but also moving corridors, and tilted or rolling spacecraft interiors. This was the first use of virtual reality techniques in space. We studied both circular and linear vection, visual reorientation illusions, and subjective reference frame effects on figure recognition and shading interpretation. We found that susceptibility to both linear as well as circular vection illusion was increased in weightlessness for three test subjects. Both vection measures were consistently reduced in flight when the subject wore a harness which held them "down" to the deck. We also tested the effects of stationary spacecraft interior scenes tilted at various angles on the perceived vertical -- a 0-G extension of classic tilted room experiments. Responses of three subjects did not change in orbit. All of them were either strongly dependent or strongly independent on visual scene tilt in preflight tests. However, one moderately visually independent subject -- as evidenced by sensitivity to scene content and body orientation -- shifted to strong visual dependence in flight, and gradually returned to independence during the first week post flight. No subjects became more visually independent during or after flight. Our tumbling room tests confirmed a consistent increase in circular vection in orbit. Visual reorientation illusion frequency in supine testing preflight and in flight were similar for most subjects. The distribution of scene angles at VRI onset showed statistically significant modal tendencies, but were unchanged in 2 of 3 subjects. We had hypothesized that complex figure recognition and interpretation of shape from shading would show effects when the direction of the subjective vertical was manipulated, as it does on Earth, even though gravity is absent. Most subjects had response biases or performed the task inconsistently, which may have masked the effect. However, one subject was able to demonstrate both types of effects consistently, showing that choice of subjective reference frame can have important perceptual consequences for astronauts. Our experiment has been tentatively selected for reflight on the International Space Station, to see how our measures of astronaut spatial orientation change over months, rather than days in. Our Neurolab scientific results, virtual reality methods, and analysis techniques are proving useful in the current research of the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, aimed at developing preflight spatial orientation training as a countermeasure, and understanding how sense of direction is coded in 3 dimensions in the hippocampus. Our findings also broaden our understanding of how elderly people and patients with diseases of the inner ear or hippocampus use visual cues, and why some find certain situations in daily life disorienting -- for example walking or driving at night, in subway stations or supermarket corridors, or in wide screen movie theaters. Dr. Charles M. Oman is director of the Man Vehicle Laboratory at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This article was adapted from a final report submitted by Oman and colleagues Ian P. Howard, Ted Carpenter-Smith, Andrew C. Beall, Alan Natapoff, James E. Zacher, and Heather Jenkin. *** CyberSpace *** NASA Apollo 11 30th Anniversary This site, created by the NASA History Office, could be considered the "official" site for the 30th anniversary of this historic mission. It's also one of the most comprehensive, with transcripts of interviews with the Apollo 11 crew, biographies of the crew and mission managers, images and movies from the mission, and a list of events to commemorate the 30th anniversary. This site should be one of the first places to turn to for more information about Apollo 11. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/ap11ann/eagle.html Where Were You July 20, 1969? The title of this site succinctly expresses its purpose: where were you on July 20, 1969, when Apollo 11 landed on the Moon? This site collects the stories of ordinary people from around the world who provide their recollections of this historic event. From those serving in Vietnam -- and those protesting the war at home -- to children and others, this site provides real stories, both funny and touching, from this historic day. http://www.wherewereyou.com/ The N-1 Moon Rocket The N-1 rocket was the Soviet Union's answer to the Saturn 5: a giant booster powerful enough to send cosmonauts on a lunar landing mission. The rocket was never successfully launched, and its development was shrouded in mystery in the West for many years. This site sheds some light on the history of the N-1, including a list of attempted launches, technical details about the booster, and one of the best photos available of the N-1 on the launch pad. http://hometown.aol.com/nodin/N1pages/N1index1.html XRayTelescope.com The Chandra X-Ray Telescope (formerly AXAF), the latest in NASA's series of "Great Observatories", has recently gone into orbit. This site, created by the "Science@NASA" team at NASA Marshall, provides some background information about the telescope, latest news about its launch, and a gallery of images and video of the telescope. If you ever wanted to know details about Chandra and the science it will perform, this is the place to go. http://xraytelescope.com/ ======== This has been the August 1, 1999, issue of SpaceViews. SpaceViews is also available on the World Wide web from the SpaceViews home page: http://www.spaceviews.com/ or via anonymous FTP from ftp.seds.org: ftp://ftp.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/19990801.txt To unsubscribe from SpaceViews, send mail to: majordomo@spaceviews.com In the body (not subject) of the message, type: unsubscribe spaceviews For editorial questions and article submissions for SpaceViews, including letters to the editor, contact the editor, Jeff Foust, at jeff@spaceviews.com For questions about the SpaceViews mailing list, please contact spaceviews-approval@spaceviews.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____ | "SpaceViews" (tm) -by Boston Chapter // \ // | of the National Space Society (NSS) // (O) // | Dedicated to the establishment // \___// | of a spacefaring civilization. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- - - To NOT receive future newsletters, send this message to our NEW address: - To: majordomo@SpaceViews.com - Subject: anything - unsubscribe SpaceViews - - E-Mail List services provided by Northern Winds: www.nw.net - - SpaceViews (tm) is published for the National Space Society (NSS), - copyright (C) Boston Chapter of National Space Society - www.spaceviews.com www.nss.org (jeff@spaceviews.com) From VM Tue Aug 3 17:16:00 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["929" "Tuesday" "3" "August" "1999" "20:12:39" "-0400" "Curtis L. Manges" "clmanges@worldnet.att.net" nil "22" "starship-design: Am I missing something?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 929 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02008 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02003 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.96.204]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990804001412.JDVZ10212@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:14:12 +0000 Message-ID: <37A78577.3F6C0F94@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Curtis L. Manges" From: "Curtis L. Manges" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: Am I missing something? Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:12:39 -0400 The following quote was taken from the article, >>"Richter Scale" of Asteroid Impact Threats Announced<< released on Spaceviews, here: http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/08/ "Some asteroids, such as 1999 AN10, at one time measured a 1 on the [Torino] scale, meaning that they had about an equal probability of striking Earth as a random, undiscovered object of similar size." Now, I've got to wonder: if an object is "undiscovered," how we can know anything about its size, or its probability of striking Earth? I feel it's important to clarify this, because it would seem to suggest that our asteroid experts are postulating the likelihoods of specific events, with NO real-world information to base their judgments on. This can't be true, can it? If any of you folks know anything about how these people do their work, I'd enjoy a little bit of enlightenment about it, as I'm sure a lot of us would. Keep looking up, Curtis From VM Tue Aug 3 17:40:04 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1327" "Tuesday" "3" "August" "1999" "17:35:02" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "26" "starship-design: Am I missing something?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1327 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05976 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05962 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04474 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06003; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:35:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14247.35510.436316.48201@tzadkiel.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <37A78577.3F6C0F94@worldnet.att.net> References: <37A78577.3F6C0F94@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.74 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Am I missing something? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Curtis L. Manges writes: > The following quote was taken from the article, >>"Richter Scale" of > Asteroid Impact Threats Announced<< released on Spaceviews, here: > http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/08/ > > "Some asteroids, such as 1999 AN10, at one time measured a 1 on the > [Torino] scale, meaning that they had about an equal probability of > striking Earth as a random, undiscovered object of similar size." > > Now, I've got to wonder: if an object is "undiscovered," how we can know > anything about its size, or its probability of striking Earth? I feel > it's important to clarify this, because it would seem to suggest that > our asteroid experts are postulating the likelihoods of specific > events, with NO real-world information to base their judgments on. This > can't be true, can it? > > If any of you folks know anything about how these people do their work, > I'd enjoy a little bit of enlightenment about it, as I'm sure a lot of > us would. You can obtain the approximate historical probability of the Earth being struck by asteroids based on geological evidence of previous impacts. So it may not be as silly as it sounds to talk about the probability of the Earth being struck by undiscovered objects, although it would be nice to know more about how they came up with the numbers. From VM Wed Aug 4 09:53:28 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["994" "Tuesday" "3" "August" "1999" "19:26:16" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "23" "Re: starship-design: Am I missing something?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 994 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16781 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16773 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin36.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.36]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17617 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37A796B8.285F939D@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <37A78577.3F6C0F94@worldnet.att.net> <14247.35510.436316.48201@tzadkiel.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Am I missing something? Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 19:26:16 -0600 Steve VanDevender wrote: > > Curtis L. Manges writes: > > The following quote was taken from the article, >>"Richter Scale" of > > Asteroid Impact Threats Announced<< released on Spaceviews, here: > > http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/08/ > > > You can obtain the approximate historical probability of the > Earth being struck by asteroids based on geological evidence of > previous impacts. So it may not be as silly as it sounds to talk > about the probability of the Earth being struck by undiscovered > objects, although it would be nice to know more about how they > came up with the numbers. I would assume you count all the impacts made and date them. Add in a fudge factor for the ones you missed and try to sort them by impact size and age. Since the last big impact was 65 million years ago I think mankind has a very small chance of death by impact as opposed to other things. This does not count mankinds stupidly like mining asteroids and trying to place on in orbit. Ben. From VM Mon Aug 9 10:06:25 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["893" "Saturday" "7" "August" "1999" "16:17:48" "+0100" "=?iso-8859-1?q?Sharmila=20Badkar?=" "sharmila27@yahoo.co.uk" nil "27" "starship-design: help needed" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: help needed" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 893 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11825 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.141]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11820 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990807151748.25888.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [203.94.225.39] by web1205.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 16:17:48 BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sharmila=20Badkar?= From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sharmila=20Badkar?= Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: help needed Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:17:48 +0100 (BST) Hello,I have been a member of this mailing list for sometime now and find the some of the views expressed very interesting. I am hoping someone can help me with the following... I am a student is of architecture in India who is currently doing a dissertation on the future of architecture in outer space. My main source of information is the Internet since there isn't much information on the design aspect of the topic here (requirements, constraints etc. other than the obvious). If anyone can help me out with my problem, it would help me immensely. I have visited the NASA site and got some information from there. It would also help if anyone could refer me to someone I can contact via e-mail. Thanx for your time and help. Sharmila Badkar _____________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk From VM Mon Aug 9 10:06:25 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["18798" "Saturday" "7" "August" "1999" "02:39:12" "-0400" "Connor Itenman" "chithree@boo.net" nil "274" "starship-design: [Fwd: casimir-forward balloon]" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: [Fwd: casimir-forward balloon]" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 18798 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05292 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boo-mda02.boo.net (root@boo-mda02.boo.net [151.200.206.22]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05287 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chithree (ppp-boo-235.Boo.Net [151.200.206.235]) by boo-mda02.boo.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA28981 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 13:49:55 -0400 Message-ID: <37ABD490.1799@boo.net> Organization: Cognitive Graphic Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Connor Itenman From: Connor Itenman Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: [Fwd: casimir-forward balloon] Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 02:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: <37ABD40E.5A57@boo.net> Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 02:37:03 -0400 From: Connor Itenman Reply-To: chithree@boo.net Organization: Cognitive Graphic Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sharmila Badkar Subject: casimir-forward balloon References: <19990807151748.25888.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7049344C6214" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7049344C6214 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since this list is so quiet, I thought I might as well bring it up. I have this idea for a balloon type arrangement for space propulsion. There's a shoddily drawn model below. The plates (red stuff) are coated in a kind of phosphor. I was hoping they could alter Microwave light, but if not that's okay, the holes can be scaled down. So the out side layer is made of a mesh that is just loose enough to let the first (green) kind of microwave in, but not the second blue one. If the phosphor will only lower the frequency, we can have a coating to exploit microwaves' penetrating properties. As far as I can tell, this would cause all the microwaves going at the balloon to come out the back end, driving it forward. Does this all work, or can you find an error in my thinking? I know that it's not a very realistic idea, since the balloon would have to be so big compared to the cargo. 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAf/9T7MHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2 YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2 YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB2YHGQB//Z --------------7049344C6214-- From VM Mon Aug 9 10:06:25 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["9580" "Saturday" "7" "August" "1999" "20:37:29" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "224" "Re: starship-design: help needed" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: help needed" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 9580 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08073 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08063 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin62.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.62]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA06329; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:31:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37ACED69.B86CE0A1@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <19990807151748.25888.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Sharmila Badkar , "Beanstalkr@aol.com" CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: help needed Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:37:29 -0600 Sharmila Badkar > > Hello,I have been a member of this mailing list for > sometime now and find the some of the views expressed > very interesting. I am hoping someone can help me with > the following... > > I am a student is of in India who is > currently doing a dissertation on the future of > architecture in outer space. My main source of > information is the Internet since there isn't much > information on the design aspect of the topic here > (requirements, constraints etc. other than the > obvious). If anyone can help me out with my problem, > it would help me immensely. I have visited the NASA > site and got some information from there. It would > also help if anyone could refer me to someone I can > contact via e-mail. > Thanx for your time and help. > > Sharmila Badkar > This is one topic I could ramble on all day about that and with my writing skills I will write all day. I am assuming architecture in general, buildings cities , industrial and farming and living complexes. That is a wide topic, depending where one is planning to build as you have wide range of environments, including as a contrast underwater environments. Here are 7 links while not architecture give some idea of what transportation into space will be like. You can't build any thing until you can get materials and people into space is my view. If you can figure the what people will be doing in space and how they got there, only then can You design the architecture that may be found in space. Here are some links might be useful. http://members.aol.com/Nathan2go/SPELEV.HTM space hotels http://msia02.msi.se/~lindsey/spaceLinks.html general home page http://www.rotaryrocket.com/ launch vehicle http://www.xprize.org/main.asp more launch vehicles http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsley.html space access http://www.bristolspaceplanes.com/home.shtml space plane This will give you some basic payload costs in the near future and size and weight constraints for construction if designs are built and assembled in orbit from prefabricated smallish parts. For larger designs your guess is as good as any. For historical context, http://solar.rtd.utk.edu/%7Emwade/spaceflt.htm and good all around rocket designs this is the place to go. Some people have suggested using boasting the shuttles external fuel tanks into orbit and using them as habitat. The missions planned to mars have some nice ideas as well. ********************************************************************************** Other links http://www.deepcold.com/ space craft never had the "Right Stuff" http://www.imax.com/films/distribution/L5.html Imax movie "L5: FIRST CITY IN SPACE" http://www.nsseducationchapter.org/ L5 stuff - design of cites in space http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/HOME.html "RADIANCE is UNIX/linux freeware for lighting design and rendering" http://www.motherearthnews.com/ The best down to earth magazine in the us/canada ********************************************************************************** My own views on the matter of space access and habitat. Those who build the launch vehicles and the ideology that goes with it will decide the architectural design. With out a lower cost sustainable ,3rd world accessible 1980's technology with 2000's design globally planned unmanned reusable launch vehicle the 250-750kg payload range; I don't see real growth into space. This could be upgraded to about 1500 kg for liquid or bulk material. I picked such a small size vehicle because it seems to me this size of craft could be owned and operated by small family groups and communities around the world. As a low profit design this will not be competed with by the Large profit making companies. This would permit more individual freedom to design and live in space. A lot of things people want to do in space could be limited by political and economic gains. For Example: When was the last time you had input for a personal computer meets your personal expectations rather than what the software company thinks what is best for you and their shareholders? The same could be true in space. Sustainable and Humane and Companionship would be the best ideologies , Rather then the Mass market quick $, instant gratification and "We are Better than you" viewpoints that could prevail. I see it being very hard not to have ones lifestyle ruled by the economic conditions of the very powerful, in this case the people who provide access into space. After Food and Companionship our environment says a lot about our human character . In space our environment depends on the building materials and design of the buildings them selves . Who provides the accesses into space defines what materials and design's into space. The current space ideology "Bigger is better" or "We know best" if you take a look at the current space station and past history. Space hotels and missions to other planets are designed to be "Monolithic" with do it big concept because we can only afford the largest throw away rockets. Architectural Designs would have fit into their compartments and be bolted together in space. Only now after 40 years are we are thinking of building the designs that would put man in space, that could have been done in the 60's to 70's. My own design would have space complexes designed from raw stock with a low profit space craft. A person who has seen "Repair" be outlawed from all hi-tech stuff.Radios,Tv's computers this MUST not happen in space, all things must be reparable. Methane?/lox for chemical fuel and isp of 350. Space plane design with single pilot craft that would launch plane to a high altitude near the speed of sound. While not very profitable it would be sustainable on earth. On say Mars it would be both. With only the ability to provide raw materials for space it would require architectural designs that could be built in space. Other wise space could be profitable only in terms of $$$ rather than a step in mankind's evolution. A space hotel will be designed as a space hotel, after 10 years it falls to earth and we build a bigger one. You can't move it to mars or use it as a food storage area, because is monolithically designed only for one job. Designs into space can be well done providing they are flexible and provide lots of user input. As a person who lives in a apartment in a rather dead community I am handicapped for social activities( I don't drive) and work at home , I tend to be alone in my cave. Fancy cave with heat,computers and running water. I can see my handicap magnified several fold in space .The traditional social things that bind people together religion , nationality , Color can't be called to bind people together, but will rather pull people apart. The architecture needs to be of a design that brings people together easily and defocus problems. So far all the space construction I have seen does not take into account social and animal requirements of man, as well of that of nature. If we don't bring nature into space who will? Now where was that bio-dome link. The experiment to live sustained for a year in a completely enclosed environment.I think they are on their 3rd atempt by now. I hope you can find it cause at the moment I can't. ************************************************************************************ The real way to put a man into space. Put a Man in space with space suit and screwdriver after borrowing two old Gemini rockets and capsules from NASA. While you haggle for that build a reusable rocket with a payload of 750 kg. Send up a few payloads of 750 kg of raw stock to build a low pressure plastic? work area. Send up our guy in the Gemini. When in orbit collect all the building material since the reusable rockets use the Gemini's upgraded computer to fly the dumb rockets to a nice close space dock. Once all is done admire the view. The next day in the space suit start building the outer habitat shell. Put up "home in space" sign. Keep sending up supplies and materials for a few days. By now a Inner high pressure inside compartment is constructed and squeeze tubes litter the gemini capsule. Well the next payload sent up is inflatable reentry craft. After building all this the rockets sitting in orbit are disassembled and put in the reentry craft , and our guy in space is getting tired of the playboy hidden under the seat, once all the work is done. The next day or so has him building a solar energy collector. Well the weekend has come around and our guy gets sent up a unexpected payload in the other Gemini His wife in a bright red space suit. ... habitat details, Undefined but triple walled to permit repair with out a space suit unless the outer most wall is damaged but only a air mask and warm underwear. Nitrogen pressurized walls to permit detection of damage to the structure by loss of air pressure or contamination of the vacuum. Wall materials hopefully last a long time since no O2 or water vapor to rust out the structure. Habitat areas would require more frequent repair. [ outer shell - mildly air tight low pressure nitrogen - external joints] [ vacuum insulation ] [ inner structure and major supports - internal medium pressure nitrogen ] primary shielding? Storage? [ vacuum insulation ] [ habitat area full pressure ] ************************************************************************************************** Good luck finding your material. Ben Franchuk (the lucky woodelf) http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/ From VM Tue Aug 10 09:30:59 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["42395" "Monday" "9" "August" "1999" "21:22:56" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "894" "starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 8" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 42395 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28440 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28429 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05091 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p224.gnt.com [204.49.89.224]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA23686 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:05:48 -0500 Message-ID: <000701bee330$fa041720$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 8 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:22:56 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: owner-spaceviews@wayback.com [mailto:owner-spaceviews@wayback.com]On Behalf Of jeff@spaceviews.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: SpaceViews -- 1999 August 8 [ SpaceViews (tm) newsletter ] [ see end of message for our NEW address to subscribe / unsubscribe ] S P A C E V I E W S Issue 1999.08.08 1999 August 8 http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/0808/ *** News *** House Delays Consideration of NASA Budget DS1 Reveals Asteroid Origins New Computer Installed on Mir Britain Funds Mars Lander, Other Projects Ariane Launch Delayed Chandra Approaches Final Orbit Human Error Blamed for Recent Launch and Satellite Accidents Scientists Salvage Useful Data from Failed Satellite SpaceViews Event Horizon Other News *** Articles *** The Early Explorers ADVERTISEMENT ************************************************************* * NEW SPACE APPAREL AT COUNTDOWN CREATIONS * * STS-99 mission shirts, International Space Station caps, * *and Hubble Space Telescope apparel are just some of the new* * items on sale at Countdown Creations. * * Countdown Creations -- Apparel for the Space Pioneer * * http://www.countdown-creations.com * ************************************************************* *** News *** House Delays Consideration of NASA Budget NASA won a reprieve -- or perhaps a stay of execution -- this week when Congress decided to delay consideration of a budget bill until after an August recess. The full House of Representatives was scheduled to debate and vote this week on HR 2684, an appropriations bill for the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development as well as independent agencies. The bill had been approved by the House Appropriations Committee July 30. However, the House delayed consideration of the bill until after its August recess, which begins August 6, out of consideration for Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV), the ranking minority member of the appropriations subcommittee responsible for the bill. Mollohan's father passed away earlier in the week. This means the bill will not be taken up by the full House until they return from recess in September, giving lobbyists and activists more time to call for the restoration of funds cut by the current version of the bill, or to call for additional cuts. HR 2684 would give NASA a budget of $12.7 billion in fiscal year 2000, starting October 1 of this year. That would be $1 billion below its current budget and $900 million below the original proposal for FY 2000 submitted by President Clinton. A House appropriations subcommittee slashed more than $1.3 billion from NASA's 2000 budget during a markup session July 26, including a $640 million cut -- nearly 30 percent -- from the agency's space science budget. The full appropriations subcommittee restored $400 million to the space science budget in a July 30 hearing, but left other cuts intact. Dan Goldin, NASA administrator, claimed that the cuts would force the agency to lay off or temporarily furlough workers, and possibly close up to three NASA centers. The cuts would kill a number of planetary and space science missions and could further delay assembly of the International Space Station. The cuts have mobilized grassroots activists, including members of the National Space Society, the Planetary Society, and other organizations, to contact Congress and call for restoration of NASA funding. "Their strong response, demonstrating public support for the planetary program, has helped influence Congress," claimed Lou Friedman, executive director of the Planetary Society. These organizations plans to keep the heat on during the recess. "The message to Congress from The Planetary Society is 'No more cuts to NASA, please vote against any bill that cuts the NASA budget,'" the organization said in a statement. The Senate has yet to act on any appropriations legislation for NASA, and will not do so until after the August recess. DS1 Reveals Asteroid Origins While failing to return high-resolution images of asteroid Braille, NASA's Deep Space 1 (DS1) spacecraft returned data of arguably far greater value: clues to the origin of the asteroid. Infrared spectra taken by an instrument on DS1 showed that Braille very closely resembled the large main-belt asteroid Vesta, and may well be a chunk of Vesta blown off in a collision millions of years ago. During a press conference August 3, mission scientists said the spectra of Braille at near-infrared wavelengths closely matches the spectra of not only Vesta itself, but meteorites on Earth that have been linked to Vesta as well. The findings were "astounding and surprising" said Robert Nelson, project scientist. "It's truly exciting." Another scientist involved with the mission, Larry Soderblom, called the results a "scientific surprise." The comparison of the spectra between tiny Braille and the far larger Vesta "is a remarkably close match," he said. Vesta is unique among the major asteroids in that it has a surface of basaltic rock that appears to have formed from volcanic activity early in its history. Hubble Space Telescope images have shown evidence for a large impact basin on the asteroid. Vesta's composition is closely matched by a fraction of the meteorites found on the Earth, however, it is difficult to get material off Vesta, located in the main asteroid belt, to the Earth. The conundrum was solved earlier this decade when astronomers discovered a group of small asteroids -- "chips" off Vesta -- trailing away from the asteroid to a gap in the asteroid belt caused by a gravitational resonance with Jupiter. That resonance would be able to fling asteroids that enter it into orbits that go through the inner solar system. That would explain Braille, which is in an eccentric orbit that crosses the orbit of Mars. Scientists said the orbit will gradually move closer to the Sun in the future, crossing the orbit of the Earth in about 4,000 years. Deputy mission manager Marc Rayman provided some insight into why the spacecraft was unable to return closeup images of Braille, as it passed 26 km (16 mi.) from the surface of the asteroid. When DS1 located the asteroid, it was some 400 km (250 mi.) off its predicted position, because of uncertainties in the asteroid's orbit. The spacecraft performed a course correction to move closer, and was able to keep track of the asteroid until 70 minutes before closest approach. At that time DS1 switched to another navigation mode, but the camera could not detect the asteroid, which was in shadow at the time. The spacecraft used the older, but less accurate, navigation data, leaving the camera pointed in the wrong direction. As DS1 moved away, however, the asteroid was in sunlight again and the infrared camera was able to take images from a range of about 13,000 to 14,000 km (8,000 to 8,700 mi.), enough to show that the asteroid has an oblong shape of 2.2 by 1 km (1.3 by 0.6 mi.) However, Nelson said, the dozen spectra were the key data obtained by the spacecraft. "Sometimes a spectrum is worth a thousand pictures," he said. New Computer Installed on Mir The crew of the Russian space station Mir took advantage of a shutdown of a guidance computer over the weekend to install a new version of that computer, Russian officials said Monday, August 3. The three-man crew on Mir had shut down their main guidance computer when it malfunctioned on Friday, relying instead on a backup system. Unlike past computer failures, the backup systems kept the station properly aligned so that the solar panels on Mir could generate power. Turning off the main guidance computer, though, did shut off power to some parts of the station, giving the crew a chance to do maintenance activities not otherwise possible. That included installing a new guidance computer sent to the station last month on a Progress resupply spacecraft. The new guidance computer is supposed to be less prone to failures than the old system, meaning the station should be able to maintain the proper attitude even when the current crew departs August 28, leaving the station unoccupied. If the station were to lose attitude control while unoccupied, it would be difficult to restore control and make a controlled deorbit of the station, planned for early 2000, unlikely. Britain Funds Mars Lander, Other Projects The decision announced this week by the British government to partially fund a Mars lander is part of a larger effort to develop a national "space strategy", the nation's science minister said. Science Minister Lord Sainsbury announced August 3 a new investment of #19.5 million (US$40.5 million) into several new space projects, including #5 million (US$8.1 million) into the Beagle 2 Mars lander. "The Beagle 2 Mars Lander is an exciting scientific mission which will be a superb demonstration of the skill and creativity of British science and engineering," Sainsbury said in a speech at the national Science Museum. The funds will be used to help develop the 60-kg (132-lb.) lander, which will fly to Mars on the European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter spacecraft in 2003. The lander will separate from Mars Express shortly before arrival and land on the planet. Once there, a camera on the lander will return images from the surface, while a robot arm gathers rock and soil samples from around the lander. Instruments on the lander will look for evidence of organic material, water, or minerals that may be evidence of past or present life. The #5 million announced by the British government is only a fraction of the #25 million needed to build the lander. The remainder of the funds will come from a public/private partnership project officials are working to put together. "The signal Lord Sainsbury has sent today is that the government's behind us," said Beagle 2 lead scientist Colin Pillinger of Open University. "This gives us the chance to go to others and say 'will you commit?'" The funding announcement for Beagle 2 was just part of a larger space strategy Sainsbury unveiled. The "UK Space Strategy 1999-2001" maps out several broad objectives for the country's space program: help industry with business opportunities, develop innovative technologies, support earth and space science, and improve communications with the public. Support for commercial endeavors was at the forefront of the new strategy. "Commercial markets for satellite communications and navigation are estimated to reach $150 billion per year by 2010," he noted. To that end, most of the additional government investment in space programs, #10.5 million (US$17 million), will go to an ESA program to develop advanced telecommunications technologies. An additional #4 million (US$6.5 million) will be used to fund the National Space Technology Program, an effort to develop new spacecraft technologies, such as advanced thrusters under development by Matra Marconi. Overall funding for British space efforts, which includes space-related funding from a number of government departments, is expected to total at least #180 million (US$291 million) a year for the next three years. Ariane Launch Delayed The first Ariane launch in over four months will be delayed several more days to replace an electrical system on the booster, Arianespace announced late Tuesday, August 3. An Ariane 42P was scheduled for launch Wednesday evening, August 4, carrying the Indonesian Telekom 1 satellite into orbit. Arianespace officials, however, decided to delay the launch less than 24 hours before the scheduled liftoff time when an electrical anomaly was discovered in a third-stage engine for another Ariane booster being tested in France. As a precaution, launch officials decided to replace the electrical system for the Ariane 4 currently on the pad. Arianespace reported Thursday, August 5 that the launch had beed pushed back to the evening of August 12. The last Ariane launch was more than four months ago, when an Ariane 4 launched an Indian communications and weather satellite on April 2. Launches planned since then have been pushed back not because of booster problems but by delays in the delivery of the satellites to be launched on the boosters. Only one other Ariane launch has occurred in 1999, in February. Last month Ariane announced an aggressive new launch schedule that called for eight launches of Ariane 4 and 5 boosters from the beginning of August through the end of the year, to partially make up for the delay. This delay to replace the Ariane's electrical system should only have a small affect on the schedule. Chandra Approaches Final Orbit A successful thruster burn Wednesday afternoon, August 4, brought the Chandra X-Ray Observatory close to its final elliptical orbit around the Earth, project officials reported. The five-minute burn by Chandra's Integral Propulsion System, starting at 12:36 pm EDT (1636 UT), raised the perigee, or lowest point, of Chandra's orbit by about 2,210 km (1,370 mi.) to 5,690 km (3,530 mi.) The apogee of Chandra's orbit remained virtually unchanged at 139,125 km (86,400 mi.). The successful firing also allayed concerns about the telescope's thrusters, which were raised when a thruster burn on Saturday, July 31 raised Chandra's apogee to about 139,100 km (86,380 mi.), 900 km (560 mi.) lower than planned. "While the propulsion system performed within specifications and has delivered us to a completely acceptable apogee altitude, the performance of Chandra's engine number 3 was slightly below expectations," said program manager Fred Wojtalik. To prevent any possible future problems from the thruster, telescope controllers switched to a redundant set of thrusters, which were used for Wednesday's burn. Because of the switch in thrusters and time needed to reconfigure systems, the burn was pushed back from early Monday, August 2, to Wednesday afternoon. "Initial indications are that today's firing went very well," Wojtalik said. A fifth and final thruster burn took place on Saturday, August 7. Chandra, launched by the shuttle Columbia on July 23, was placed in an initial elliptical orbit by an Inertial Upper Stage. The telescope has since used its own onboard thrusters to place it in its final orbit, planned to be 10,000 by 140,000 km (6,200 by 86,940 mi.) The slightly lower apogee Chandra currently has should not pose a problem to the mission, officials said. Chandra is in such a highly elliptical orbit, which takes it a third of the way to the Moon, to keep the telescope out of the Earth's radiation belts for as long as possible in each orbit. The instruments on board the telescope are being turned on and checked out while Chandra's orbit is tweaked. That process has been proceeding smoothly, Wojtalik said. Human Error Blamed for Recent Launch and Satellite Accidents Human error has been fingered as the root cause of both a Titan 4 launch accident in April and a Global Positions System (GPS) satellite that was damaged by rainwater in May, separate Air Force investigations concluded last month. One investigation found that improperly developed and tested software caused the failure of a Centaur upper stage during an April 30 launch of a Milstar satellite. The software caused the Centaur upper stage to lose all attitude control. In an attempt to regain attitude control, the Centaur used up all its hydrazine propellant used for its reaction control thrusters. As a result, the upper stage and the Milstar satellite were stranded in a low, useless orbit. The findings confirmed earlier speculation that the problem was caused by the control system of the Centaur and was not related to its main engines. The Centaur uses a version of the Pratt and Whitney RL-10 engine that apparently exploded during a Delta 3 launch just 4 days later. A separate investigation looked into how rainwater managed to damage a GPS satellite on a Cape Canaveral launch pad in early May. The satellite was atop its Delta 2 booster on the launch pad, surrounded by the "White Room", a mobile structure that allows technicians access to the satellite during launch preparations, when a strong thunderstorm hit. The rainwater entered the White Room through a small leak in the roof, and then pooled on a waterproof rain shroud hastily put into place over the satellite. The shroud could not support the weight of the water, however, and collapsed, allowing water to spill into the open satellite and damage it. Investigators found that technicians had not properly assembled the shroud, taping together pieces on only one side of the material and not both as required. The leak in the roof of the White Room contributed to the damage, investigators said, but the fact that the room was not watertight was previously known. When the damage was discovered, the satellite has to be taken back for repairs, which are estimated to cost $2.1 million. No new launch date has been set for the satellite. The accidents were two in a series of mishaps that stung the launch industry earlier this year. Three days before the Titan 4/Centaur failure, a Lockheed Martin Athena 2 failed to place a commercial remote sensing satellite into orbit when its nose cone failed to detach, making the payload too heavy to reach orbit. Another Titan 4 launch failed in early April when the Inertial Upper Stage designed to place an early-warning satellite into its proper orbit misfired. The results of that investigation have yet to be released. Scientists Salvage Useful Data from Failed Satellite A spacecraft launched earlier this year and all but written off as a total failure has yielded important new scientific data after all, a University of California Berkeley scientist reported last week. Derek Buzasi, a research physicist at Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory, managed to use a secondary instrument on the Wide Field Infrared Explorer (WIRE) satellite to observe the vibrations of another star for the first time. Buzasi used the 5-cm (2-in.) star tracker on WIRE to perform a month's worth of observations on the star Alpha Ursa Major, or Dubhe, and for the first time recorded the star's internal vibrations. The star tracker was not designed for scientific observations but rather to make sure WIRE was pointed in the proper direction for its main instrument, an infrared camera mounted on a 30-cm (12-inch) telescope. However, an electronics glitch shortly after launch jettisoned the spacecraft's sunshade prematurely. The solid hydrogen on WIRE, designed to keep the instrument cool, sublimated and vented into space, spinning up the spacecraft. By the time WIRE was brought back under control, all the hydrogen had been lost, ending the main scientific mission of the spacecraft before it could even begin. Buzasi, however, saw an opportunity to use WIRE's star tracker for extended observations of stars. He approached NASA and received permission to use the star tracker. Buzasi was the only user of the spacecraft except for engineers conducting a series of tests that have since concluded. "It's a really nice instrument," Buzasi said. "I was lucky that WIRE retained the full capability of the star tracker and that the CCD camera attached to it is better than most star trackers need. And WIRE points amazingly well." Buzasi observed Dubhe for a month, looking for minute variations in its brightness that would be caused by stellar vibrations similar to ones seen in our own Sun. Because the periodic fluctuations in brightness are only about a thousandth the random fluctuations caused by noise, he needed the long observing time to detect the vibrations. Such observations could be conducted on Earth, but the extended period of time needed to conduct them makes them impractical, given the high demand for telescope time. "A two-inch aperture above the atmosphere can be better than ten meters below it," Buzasi said. The observations of Dubhe have already allowed Buzasi and colleagues to measure the mass of the star -- 4.25 times the mass of the Sun -- more accurately than other means. Later analysis should provide insights into the interior structure of the star. Buzasi, who has access to WIRE's star tracker until October, plans to observe the nearby star Alpha Centauri to search for vibrations there. "For us this is the most interesting star," said Yale University's Pierre Demarque, a colleague of Buzasi. "We have made lots of calculations about Alpha Centauri in hopes someday someone would make these observations." Two satellites, the French COROT and the Canadian MOST, are in development to perform similar studies, but won't be launched until 2001. "Derek has scooped both of them," Demarque said. SpaceViews Event Horizon August 11 Total solar eclipse visible in portions of Europe, the Middle East, Pakistan, and India. (Partial phases visible in other areas, including northeastern North America.) August 12 Ariane 4 launch of the Indonesian Telekom-1 communications satellite from Kourou, French Guiana at 6:52 pm EDT (2252 UT) August 12-15 Mars Society 1999 Conference, Boulder, CO August 14 Galileo flyby of the Jovian moon Callisto August 17 Delta 2 launch of four Globlastar satellites from Cape Canaveral, Florida at 12:37 am EDT (0437 UT) August 18 Cassini flyby of Earth August 22 Global Positioning System (GPS) week number rollover September 23-26 Space Frontier Conference 8, Los Angeles, CA Other News SETI@home Approaches One Million: The SETI@home project, where people download screensavers to help process data collected in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) effort, has now nearly one million users. During a Yahoo! chat July 30, project director David Anderson and chief scientist Dan Wertheimer said that almost 32 of 200 tapes, each holding 35 gigabytes (GB) of data, have been processed since the project opened to the public in mid-May. The number of people participating has surprised even the leaders of the effort. "We thought 100,000 [people would sign up], 150,000 if we were lucky," Anderson said. Io's Brilliant Aurora: If an astronaut could survive the fierce conditions on the surface of Io, the innermost of Jupiter's large Galilean satellites, he or she would be dazzled by the brilliant aurorae that would be visible. Scientists using Galileo data have found that Io is surrounded by red, green, and blue aurorae as electrons accelerated by Jupiter's powerful magnetic field collide with the moon's tenuous atmosphere. The aurora in general tends to fade when the Sun is eclipsed from view on Io by Jupiter, a sign that the atmosphere partially cools and collapses during that time. The blue portion of the aurora actually grows brighter, though, as it is caused by collisions with sulfur dioxide molecules emitted by volcanic eruptions that are unaffected by the eclipse. Asteroid Families: Groups, or "families", of asteroids that travel in similar orbits usually have similar compositions, and thus are likely remnants of a larger asteroid, an MIT researcher has found. Schelte Bus measured the spectra of over 1,000 asteroids, including those in over a dozen families, and found that in nearly all cases the members of the families had similar compositions. "What this tells us is that collisions are an important mechanism in the evolution of the asteroid belt," Bus said. "Sometimes these collisions are powerful enough to result in a catastrophic disruption, where the asteroid is totally fragmented. This leaves families -- fragments of the original parent asteroid -- traveling in similar orbits." New Uranian Moons: For the second time this year, astronomers have discovered new moons around the planet Uranus. An international team of astronomers found two small moons orbiting the planet in mid-July. This brings the total number of moons orbiting the planet to 20, more than any other planet. Astronomers found two moons orbiting the planet in 1997 and discovered another earlier this year in old Voyager 2 images taken during a 1986 flyby of the planet. These five moons are the only new moons to have been discovered around another planet in the 1990s, although moons have been found around at least two asteroids. Antarctica and Europa: Continued study of Lake Vostok, a large lake buried beneath the ice of Antarctica, may help scientists better understand the ice-covered oceans which are believed to exist on the Jovian moon Europa and which may harbor life, scientists concluded in an NSF report released last week. Lake Vostok, about the size of the Great Lakes' Lake Ontario, is buried under 4 km (2.4 mi.) of ice and is thought to be a good terrestrial analog of the ice-covered oceans thought to exist on Europa. Scientists have proposed future exploration of the lake, including drilling into the lake to retrieve samples, as a way of learning more about the lake and learning how to conduct future exploration of Europa. Briefly: Want some stardust? Buy a diamond, advises a University of Massachusetts geoscientist. In a paper in the August 6 issue of Science, Stephen Haggerty concludes that the carbon found in diamonds comes directly from supernova explosions, and is not the result of organic material exposed to the extreme heat and pressures within the Earth, as previously believed. The age of the carbon found in diamonds and the similarity of carbon isotope ratios in diamonds with those in meteorites led him to his conclusion... Professional athletes often sign contracts that prevent them from taking part in risky sports or other activities. Soccer player Stefan Schwarz, though, might the first pro athlete whose contract bans him from space travel. The English Sunderland soccer club added that proviso to his contract in a recent trade after they heard that one of the player's advisers had signed up for an unspecified commercial space flight in 2002 and might bring the player along. "At the end of the day we are protecting the club, really," club chief executive John Fickling told the BBC. "It was a little bit of a light-hearted moment during protracted negotiations. But one day it could become be quite acceptable to put such clauses in various contracts." *** Articles *** The Early Explorers by Andrew J. LePage Introduction In the chaos that swept the United States after the launching of the first Soviet Sputniks, a variety of satellite programs was sponsored by the Department of Defense (DoD) to supplement (and in some cases supplant) the country's flagging "official" satellite program, Vanguard. One of the stronger programs was sponsored by the ABMA (Army Ballistic Missile Agency) with its engineering team lead by the German rocket expert, Wernher von Braun. Using the Juno I launch vehicle, the ABMA team launched America's first satellite, Explorer 1, which was built by Caltech's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) (see "Explorer: America's First Satellite" in the February 1998 issue of SpaceViews). While these first satellites returned a wealth of new data, they were limited by the tiny 11 kilogram (25 pound) payload capability of the Juno I. In order to orbit larger payloads carrying a larger range of instrumentation, von Braun's team developed the Juno II. While the Juno I upper stage cluster of solid rocket motors was retained, the Juno II used a modified Jupiter IRBM instead of the smaller modified Redstone as a first stage. This new combination was first used to launch the Pioneer 3 and 4 lunar probes in December 1958 and March 1959 (see "Shooting for the Moon" in the January 1, 1999 issue of SpaceViews). ABMA planners started working with JPL under the aegis of ARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency) to develop new and larger satellites to fly on the Juno II. But long before the first of these new satellites was even launched, political decisions changed the landscape of America's fledging space program. With the formation of NASA in October of 1958, all ARPA-sponsored space science satellite programs were transferred to the new space agency. Among these programs were the next generation of Explorer satellites the ABMA was planning. The First New Explorers The first of the new series of larger Explorer satellites was the 39.7 kilogram (87.5 pound) satellite NASA designated as S-1. Built by JPL, the spin stabilized S-1 consisted of a pair of fiberglass cones joined at their bases with a diameter and height of 76 centimeters each. The scientific payload consisted of instruments to study cosmic rays, solar X-ray and ultraviolet emissions, micrometeorites, as well as the globe's heat balance. This was all powered by a bank of 15 nickel-cadmium batteries recharged by 3,000 solar cells mounted on the satellite's exterior. This advanced payload was equipped with a timer to turn itself off after a year in orbit. Explorer S-1 was launched from Cape Canaveral on July 16, 1959 on Juno II Round AM-16. Immediately upon launch an electrical problem in the Jupiter first stage doomed the mission to failure. In one of the Cape's more spectacular early launch failures, the Range Safety Officer detonated the rocket's destruct package 5.5 seconds after launch after the rocket had pitched over towards the ground. But as the ABMA team was preparing their next Juno II for launch, another unrelated Explorer satellite would attempt to reach orbit. This satellite, called S-2, was originally a joint USAF-ARPA project to launch a sophisticated probe into a very elongated orbit to study the Earth's newly discovered Van Allen radiation belts. S-2 would study this region in more detail than the Pioneer probes that first traversed it. Like the USAF-ARPA lunar Pioneer program, S-2 was transferred to NASA shortly after it was founded with the USAF officially relegated to an advisory role. The S-2 payload was arguably one of the most advanced satellites ever constructed up to that time. Built by STL (Space Technology Laboratory) like the USAF Pioneer orbiters (see "Operation Mona: America's First Moon Program" in the April 1998 issue of SpaceViews), the satellite was a 64 kilogram (142 pound) spheroid with a diameter of 66 centimeters (26 inches) and a height of 74 centimeters (29 inches). The spin stabilized satellite used four extendable solar "paddles" to power its array of onboard equipment. The impressive array of instruments was designed to study various types of trapped radiation, galactic cosmic rays, geomagnetism, radio propagation and micrometeorites. Also carried was a TV line scanner similar to that flown on the USAF Pioneers designed to produce crude images of the Earth from orbit. These TV signals were transmitted back to Earth along with digital data from other instruments using a UHF transmitter that operated for a few hours a day. A pair of continuously operating VHF transmitters returned a constant stream of analog instrument data. The S-2 payload would be sent into its elongated 12-hour hour orbit using the USAF Thor-Able - the same launch vehicle unsuccessfully used to send the USAF Pioneers to the Moon. Thankfully, S-2 would have better luck than the Pioneers orbiters. On August 7, 1959 (40 years ago this month) Thor-Able 3 successfully placed S-2, now officially designated Explorer 6, into a 245 kilometer (152 miles) by 42,400 kilometer (26,343 mile) orbit inclined 47 degrees to the equator. The only major problem occurred when one of the four solar paddles failed to fully extend resulting in the new satellite generating only 63% of nominal power. This amount gradually decreased through the mission and affected the quality of the transmitted signal especially near apogee. Despite its initial problems, Explorer 6 was a spectacular success. It returned the first crude images of the Earth from orbit. It also supplied a wealth of fresh data on the radiation and magnetic environment of near-Earth space. On September 11 one of the two VHF transmitters failed and contact was finally lost on October 6 when the power levels fell below the minimum the satellite needed to operate. In total, Explorer 6 returned 23 hours of digital data and 827 hours of data in analog form. Experience from the design of the successful and innovative Explorer 6 would be used by STL engineers for later Pioneer lunar and interplanetary probes. Success for ABMA With Explorer 6 in orbit, the ABMA team was ready for another launch attempt. Juno II Round AM-19B carried a USAF-developed payload called Beacon. This was a 12 kilogram (26 pound) balloon designed to inflate to 3.7 meters (12 feet) across once in orbit. It was meant to study the properties of the upper atmosphere from orbit. A malfunction in the rocket's guidance system shortly after launch on August 14, 1959 (40 years ago this month) prevented Beacon from reaching orbit. Undeterred, von Braun's team studied the causes of the Juno II failures and made corrections for the launch of the next satellite designated S-1a on Round AM-19A. Payload S-1A weighed 41.9 kilograms (92.3 pounds) and was a slightly improved version of the ill fated S-1. But unlike S-1, S-1a was successfully launched into a 557 kilometer (346 mile) by 1,069 kilometer (664 mile) orbit inclined 50.3 degrees to officially become Explorer 7. NASA's newest Explorer returned much new information on the spatial and temporal structure of the inner edge of the Van Allen radiation belts that complimented earlier data and that taken concurrently by later satellites. Explorer 7 returned continuous real-time data through February 1961 and then intermittently until August 24 of that year. Next up was payload S-46. This 10.2 kilogram (22.5 pound) cylindrical satellite was 18 centimeters (7 inches) in diameter and 53 centimeters (21 inches) long. Similar in design and mission to the earlier Explorer satellites launched by the Juno I, S-46 carried instruments to study the Earth's radiation belts. But unlike its earlier siblings, S-46 also carried four banks of solar cells mounted on a rectangular box to recharge its batteries for up to one year. By using the more powerful Juno II, this new payload could survey the Van Allen belts from a more highly elongated orbit that was designed to survey its breadth. The new payload mounted atop of Juno II Round AM-19C was launched on March 23, 1960 but all telemetry was lost shortly after first stage burn out. The Juno II had failed again. The next attempt by ABMA to launch a JPL-built Explorer came later that year. Payload S-30 was similar in shape and design to the earlier S-46-series satellites except it did not carry solar cells and had a life of only 1.5 months. Weighing in at 40.26 kilogram (88.65 pounds), this satellite was designed to make in situ measurements of upper atmospheric properties such as electron density, temperature, composition and how they vary with time and altitude. The solar cells were excluded from this payload because asymmetric charging on the cell surfaces would produce electric fields that could affect experiment results. Three different sensors to measure micrometeorites were also carried. This new payload was successfully launched into a 459 by 2,289 kilometers (285 by 1,423 mile) orbit on Juno II Round AM-19D on November 3, 1960. As expected, Explorer 8 operated until December 28 when its batteries were finally exhausted. During its useful life, Explorer 8 returned a large volume of data but unfortunately there were problems processing the raw telemetry into usable measurement. Because of these problems, most of the data had to be processed by hand. Nonetheless many important new observations were made including the discovery of a helium layer in the ionosphere. The Last Flights of the Juno II From the start NASA policymakers knew that the Juno II was only a stopgap measure. Kludged together from a variety of preexisting hardware, the Juno II was hardly an optimum design for the task of satellite launches. And its high failure rate only underscored the need for a replacement. By the end of 1960, the all solid-rocket motor Scout had already started test flights. Promising lower costs and better reliability, the Scout was designed to launch small Explorer-class payloads into low orbits and would gradually replace Juno II in that role during 1961. Larger payloads to be launched into distant Earth orbits would use a highly upgraded version of the Thor Able called the Thor Delta (later know as just Delta). But in the mean time the remaining Juno II rounds had payloads to launch. The next payload ready for launch was S-45. It was similar to the proven design of Explorers 7 and 8 and weighed 34.1 kilograms (75.0 pounds). This solar-powered satellite would transmit low power, phase-coherent signals at six different frequencies between 20 and 960 MHz which would be monitored by ground stations. This allowed scientists to determine many key parameters of Earth's ionosphere. On February 24, 1961 what would have become Explorer 10 (Explorer 9 was successfully launched on a Scout eight days earlier) was launched on Round AM-19F. Unfortunately a malfunction prevented the last two stages from igniting and S-45 failed to reach orbit. Unlike the earlier Explorers, payload S-15 observed the heavens making it the first astronomical satellite. This satellite consisted of an octagonal box 31 centimeters (12 inches) across and 59 centimeters (23 inches) long mounted on top of a 52 centimeter (20 inches) long cylinder with a diameter of 15 centimeters (6 inches). The principle instrument was designed to detect gamma rays with an energy greater than 50 Mev over a field of view of five degrees. The spin of the satellite in orbit would allow this directional detector to scan most of the celestial sphere with emphasis along the galactic plane. The satellite would also measure the Earth's reflectivity to gamma rays. This 43.2 kilogram (95.1 pound) satellite had a life expectancy of four months due to the deleterious effects of radiation on the solar cells mounted on the exterior of the box. Launched on April 27, 1961, S-15 became Explorer 11 when Round AM-19E sent it into a 497 by 1,793 kilometer (309 by 1,114 mile) orbit. Despite the loss of its tape recorder, Explorer 11 was able to return a large amount of real-time data during its unexpectedly long 224 day life. One of the more important findings was the lack of evidence to support steady state cosmology. This theory proposed that new matter was being continuously created to fill the expanding Universe. This process should have generated a gamma ray signature that Explorer 11 could detect. Their absence was a boost for the popular alternative theory called the Big Bang. The last payload that Juno II launched was S-45a. Essentially a duplicate of the unsuccessful S-45, the last ABMA-JPL Explorer lifted off on Round AM-19G on May 24, 1961. But failure struck again when a malfunction during second stage ignition doomed the mission. With this anticlimactic finale, the Juno II was quietly retired after ten launches. While the Juno II had its problems, it did successfully launch three satellites and one lunar probe that added immensely to the first steps in the exploration of space. Bibliography Josef Boehm, Hans J. Fichtner, and Otto A. Hoberg, "Explorer Satellites Launched by Juno 1 and Juno 2 Space Carrier Vehicles", in Aeronautical Engineering and Science, Ernst Stuhlinger, Frederick I. Ordway III, Jerry C. McCall, and George C. Bucher (editors), pp. 218-239, McGraw-Hill, 1963 Ray V. Hembree, Charles A. Lundquist, and Arthur W. Thompson, "Scientific Results from Juno-Launched Spacecraft", in Aeronautical Engineering and Science, Ernst Stuhlinger, Frederick I. Ordway III, Jerry C. McCall, and George C. Bucher (editors), pp. 281-297, McGraw-Hill, 1963 Bill Yenne, The Encyclopedia of US Spacecraft, Exeter Books, 1985 Major NASA Launches, PMS 031 (KSC), NASA, December 1989 -- Drew LePage is a physicist and freelance writer specializing in astronomy and the history of spaceflight. He can be reached at lepage@visidyne.com. ======== This has been the August 8, 1999, issue of SpaceViews. SpaceViews is also available on the World Wide web from the SpaceViews home page: http://www.spaceviews.com/ or via anonymous FTP from ftp.seds.org: ftp://ftp.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/spaceviews/text/19990808.txt To unsubscribe from SpaceViews, send mail to: majordomo@spaceviews.com In the body (not subject) of the message, type: unsubscribe spaceviews For editorial questions and article submissions for SpaceViews, including letters to the editor, contact the editor, Jeff Foust, at jeff@spaceviews.com For questions about the SpaceViews mailing list, please contact spaceviews-approval@spaceviews.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____ | "SpaceViews" (tm) -by Boston Chapter // \ // | of the National Space Society (NSS) // (O) // | Dedicated to the establishment // \___// | of a spacefaring civilization. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- - - To NOT receive future newsletters, send this message to our NEW address: - To: majordomo@SpaceViews.com - Subject: anything - unsubscribe SpaceViews - - E-Mail List services provided by Northern Winds: www.nw.net - - SpaceViews (tm) is published for the National Space Society (NSS), - copyright (C) Boston Chapter of National Space Society - www.spaceviews.com www.nss.org (jeff@spaceviews.com) From VM Wed Aug 11 10:05:46 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["725" "Tuesday" "10" "August" "1999" "20:58:04" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "24" "starship-design: Advanced Field Propulsion Physics" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 725 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09716 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09703 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p294.gnt.com [204.49.91.102]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA06101 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:17:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bee39f$99699010$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE375.B0938810" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Advanced Field Propulsion Physics Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:58:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE375.B0938810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try the links to the papers on this page. http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE375.B0938810 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Homepage.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Homepage.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html Modified=E0738CBB9CE3BE01D8 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE375.B0938810-- From VM Wed Aug 11 10:05:46 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["507" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "09:30:26" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "20" "starship-design: starship design--propulsion link" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 507 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18941 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.xoommail.com (colo01-033.xoom.com [206.132.179.33]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18933 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www2.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13478; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:30:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199908111630.JAA13478@www2.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: starship design--propulsion link Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:30:26 -0700 I inadvertently deleted the last message sent that included a link to a german server with documents on propulsion....could someone please send that link again? Thanks, Fred Reyes ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Wed Aug 11 10:11:44 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["418" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "10:07:36" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "16" "starship-design: starship design--propulsion link" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 418 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01622 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.xoommail.com (colo01-033.xoom.com [206.132.179.33]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01606 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www2.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27429; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:07:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199908111707.KAA27429@www2.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: starship design--propulsion link Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:07:36 -0700 Thanks for the link....however...every time I try it it gives me an error.....any ideas? Fred ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Wed Aug 11 11:01:36 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["597" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "19:50:03" "+0200" "Zenon Kulpa" "zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" nil "17" "Re: starship-design: starship design--propulsion link" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 597 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20994 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (zmit1.ippt.gov.pl [148.81.53.8]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20888 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from zkulpa@localhost) by zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (8.8.5/8.7.3-zmit) id TAA01713; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:50:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908111750.TAA01713@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Zenon Kulpa From: Zenon Kulpa Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu, reyesfred@xoommail.com Cc: zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl Subject: Re: starship-design: starship design--propulsion link Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:50:03 +0200 (MET DST) > From owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Aug 11 19:06:35 1999 > Reply-To: Fred Reyes > > Thanks for the link....however...every time I try > it it gives me an error.....any ideas? > None... I have tried several versions, then finally come to the http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/ site. Search on this site (with the search form included) returned four pages of Berkant Goeksel , but every one of them gives an error (either "not found", or "you dont't have permission to access..."). Ask Parker, who sent this link to the list... -- Zenon Kulpa From VM Wed Aug 11 14:38:55 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1209" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "15:22:03" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "35" "starship-design: Broken link" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1209 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21689 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21679 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p192.gnt.com [204.49.89.192]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA16690 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:23:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01bee437$3fa191c0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Broken link Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:22:03 -0500 I have tried the link again myself and find it non-functional. I have appended most of the relevant links on the page below: GRAVITATIONAL ENGINEERING PAGE http://home.att.net/~kfbrown/ A possibility of emission of high frequency gravitational radiation from d-wave to s-wave type superconductor junctions http://alpha.science.unitn.it/~fontana/spsj.html General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract gr-qc/9512027 http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc?9512027 The two most interesting papers were unfortunately on the German site. They were from Petkov and presented some rather fascinating treatments of the origin of mass and inertia. I have both pdf files downloaded to my system, if anyone wants copies please email me directly and I will forward them - Steve would not like me sending attachments of this size through his mail server . Lee Parker ================,,,========================= ===============(o o)======================== ===========oOO==(_)==OOo==================== lparker@cacaphony.net ===========ooooO==Ooooo===================== ===========( )==( )===================== ============\ (====) /====================== =============\_)==(_/======================= From VM Wed Aug 11 14:38:55 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1001" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "14:57:21" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "34" "FW: starship-design: Advanced Field Propulsion Physics (again)" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21711 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21706 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p192.gnt.com [204.49.89.192]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA16684 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:23:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01bee437$3e300060$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEE40D.5559F860" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: FW: starship-design: Advanced Field Propulsion Physics (again) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:57:21 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEE40D.5559F860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of L. Parker Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 8:58 PM To: Starship-Design (E-mail) Subject: starship-design: Advanced Field Propulsion Physics Try the links to the papers on this page. http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEE40D.5559F860 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Homepage.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Homepage.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html Modified=E0738CBB9CE3BE01D8 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEE40D.5559F860-- From VM Wed Aug 11 14:38:55 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["655" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "15:27:03" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "23" "starship-design: FW: found cached page at google.com" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 655 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22953 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22947 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p192.gnt.com [204.49.89.192]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA17295 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01bee437$e3aa36f0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: found cached page at google.com Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:27:03 -0500 Kevin asked me to forward this to the list, he found a portion of the missing pages... -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Houston [mailto:khouston@vistamn.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:53 PM To: 'L Clayton Parker' Subject: found cached page at google.com Lee, I'm not at my home computer, could you forward this to the list? if you click on this link, you will get a copy of the page when it was archived by google. http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:49425652&dq=cache:www.physik.tu-berlin. de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html some of the pdf links are still active http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/petkov1.pdf From VM Wed Aug 11 15:03:28 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["555" "Wednesday" "11" "August" "1999" "16:29:35" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "20" "starship-design: Another missing link" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 555 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29037 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29027 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p192.gnt.com [204.49.89.192]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA30859 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:01:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01bee445$08600760$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Another missing link Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:29:35 -0500 If you use the cached page to get to the one in Germany, you will discover that the following link is also broken: Dr. Bernhard Haisch (Lockheed Martin, Palo Alto, CA) Advances in the Proposed Electromagnetic Zero-Point Field Theory of Inertia. AIAA-98-3143. (zpf_ipc.pdf ) It is now found at: http://www.jse.com/haisch/zpf_jpc98.pdf You may also want to look at the rest of the articles available from Haisch's site: http://www.jse.com/haisch/zpf.html http://www.jse.com/haisch/astrophysics.html Lee Parker From VM Fri Aug 13 10:42:21 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["428" "Friday" "13" "August" "1999" "10:40:36" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "16" "starship-design: starship design webpage" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 428 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11742 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www1.xoommail.com (colo01-031.xoom.com [206.132.179.31]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11737 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www1.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14425; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:40:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199908131740.KAA14425@www1.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: starship design webpage Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:40:36 -0700 Thanks for all the info....any news on the webpage for starhip design...what is the sites address? Fred ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Fri Aug 13 15:32:10 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["248" "Friday" "13" "August" "1999" "17:45:08" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "9" "Re: starship-design: starship design webpage" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 248 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11724 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11719 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id vAIMa06268 (3947); Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: reyesfred@xoommail.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: starship design webpage Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:45:08 EDT In a message dated 8/13/99 12:41:46 PM, reyesfred@xoommail.com writes: >Thanks for all the info....any news on the webpage >for starhip design...what is the sites address? > >Fred http://metalab.unc.edu/lunar/school/InterStellar/SSD_index.html From VM Mon Aug 16 10:33:37 1999 Content-Length: 182 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["182" "Sunday" "15" "August" "1999" "13:56:25" "+0100" "Timothy van der Linden" "Shealiak@XS4ALL.nl" nil "8" "starship-design: Storing hydrogen" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Storing hydrogen" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 182 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12262 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 06:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.49]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12257 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 06:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from - (dc2-modem2414.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.137.110]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00271 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:03:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990815135625.006b57d8@pop.xs4all.nl> X-Sender: shealiak@pop.xs4all.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Timothy van der Linden From: Timothy van der Linden Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Storing hydrogen Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:56:25 +0100 Hi all, Hydrogen could be used for fusion, but its storage is a bit awkward. New technologies may make this easier: http://www.spacedaily.com/spacecast/news/fuel-99a.html Timothy From VM Mon Aug 16 10:24:19 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1845" "Monday" "16" "August" "1999" "03:22:30" "-0700" "Im@x'99" "moonwalker@tiscalinet.it" nil "55" "starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:19:46 +0200" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:19:46 +0200" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1845 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18985 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crux.tiscalinet.it (crux.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.59]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18980 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall2001 (ca2-522.tiscalinet.it [212.123.90.138]) by crux.tiscalinet.it (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04842 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:22:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00a301bee7d1$bd399040$8a5a7bd4@hall2001> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01BEE7E1.A0F63360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Im@x'99" From: "Im@x'99" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:19:46 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:22:30 -0700 (PDT) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BEE7E1.A0F63360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bonjour =E0 tout le monde! Je suis un =E9tudiant passionn=E9 d' astronomie qui est sorti du lyc=E9e = cette ann=E9e. J'ai publi=E9 en occasion de l' examen d' Etat un site = autour de trous noirs.=20 Je vous invite =E0 le visiter, ou mieux je vous en pris! Merci! Mauro. http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri Si vous voulez m'=E9crire: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BEE7E1.A0F63360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bonjour à tout le monde!
Je suis un étudiant passionné d' = astronomie qui=20 est sorti du lycée cette année. J'ai publié en = occasion de=20 l' examen d' Etat un site autour de trous noirs. 
Je vous invite à le visiter, ou mieux je vous = en=20 pris!
Merci!
Mauro.
http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri
Si vous voulez = m'écrire:
moonwalker@tiscalinet.it
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BEE7E1.A0F63360-- From VM Mon Aug 16 10:24:19 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2786" "Monday" "16" "August" "1999" "03:26:07" "-0700" "Im@x'99" "moonwalker@tiscalinet.it" nil "80" "starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:29:35 +0200" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:29:35 +0200" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2786 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19173 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crux.tiscalinet.it (crux.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.59]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19166 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall2001 (ca2-522.tiscalinet.it [212.123.90.138]) by crux.tiscalinet.it (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06606 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:26:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00cf01bee7d2$3e158a20$8a5a7bd4@hall2001> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CA_01BEE7E3.002D16E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Im@x'99" From: "Im@x'99" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:29:35 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:26:07 -0700 (PDT) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01BEE7E3.002D16E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bonjour =E0 tout le monde! Je suis un =E9tudiant passionn=E9 d' astronomie qui est sorti du lyc=E9e = cette ann=E9e. J'ai publi=E9 en occasion de l' examen d' Etat un site = autour de trous noirs.=20 Je vous invite =E0 le visiter, ou mieux je vous en pris! Merci! Mauro. http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri Si vous voulez m'=E9crire: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it =20 Hi all! Visite my site about blackholes at: http://www.web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri and send me your opinions: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it Thank you! Mauro ------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01BEE7E3.002D16E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bonjour à tout le monde!
Je suis un étudiant passionné d' = astronomie qui=20 est sorti du lycée cette année. J'ai publié en = occasion de=20 l' examen d' Etat un site autour de trous noirs. 
Je vous invite à le visiter, ou mieux je vous = en=20 pris!
Merci!
Mauro.
http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri
Si vous voulez = m'écrire:
moonwalker@tiscalinet.it
 
Hi all!
Visite my site about = blackholes=20 at:
http://www.web.tiscalinet= .it/buchineri
and send me  your=20 opinions:
moonwalker@tiscalinet.it
Thank you!
Mauro
------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01BEE7E3.002D16E0-- From VM Tue Aug 17 10:02:20 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4882" "Monday" "16" "August" "1999" "23:17:27" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "110" "starship-design: solar wind plasma sail" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4882 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19339 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19333 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08901 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06986; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:17:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14264.65143.145083.87365@localhost.efn.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.73 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: solar wind plasma sail Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Here's an article from the USENET sci.space.news group on a spacecraft propulsion system that will use a plasma-based magnetic field generator to allow a spacecraft to be accelerated by the solar wind. From: Andrew Yee Subject: New spacecraft propulsion method could be out of this solar system (Forwarded) Newsgroups: sci.space.news Followup-To: sci.space.policy Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:00:28 -0400 Organization: via Internet Direct Reply-To: ayee@nova.astro.utoronto.ca University of Washington FROM: Vince Stricherz, 205-543-2580, vinces@u.washington.edu FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Aug. 16, 1999 New spacecraft propulsion method could be out of this solar system It sounds like a "droid" straight out of Star Wars. That's not a coincidence because a new propulsion system dubbed M2P2 can greatly boost spacecraft speeds, perhaps to 10 times the velocity of the space shuttle, University of Washington scientists believe. NASA's Institute for Advanced Concepts last week awarded a two-year, $500,000 grant to a UW team headed by geophysicist Robert Winglee to continue research on Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion. If laboratory work and tests in space succeed, he hopes in 10 years to launch an M2P2-equipped spacecraft that would become the first from Earth to leave the Solar System. That would be quite a feat, considering the craft would have to overtake Voyager I, launched in 1977 and now about 6.8 billion miles away but still within the solar system. Winglee, an associate geophysics professor, has been working on M2P2 the last nine months with geophysics professor George Parks and John Slough, a research associate professor of aeronautics and astronautics. They are developing a prototype and are preparing for tests in the UW's Redmond Plasma Physics Laboratory. Their system would use a plasma chamber about the size of a large pickle jar, perhaps 10 inches by 10 inches, attached to a spacecraft. Solar cells and solenoid coils would power the creation of a dense magnetized plasma, or ionized gas, that would inflate an electromagnetic field 10 to 12 miles in radius around the spacecraft. The field would interact with and be dragged by the solar wind. Creating the field would be akin to raising a giant sail and harnessing the solar wind, which moves at 780,000 to 1.8 million miles an hour -- or "here to Washington, D.C., in 10 seconds," Winglee said. There is enough power in the solar wind to move a 300-pound spacecraft at speeds up to 180,000 miles per hour or 4.3 million miles a day. By contrast, the space shuttle travels at about 18,000 miles per hour or 430,000 miles a day. At such speeds, an M2P2-equipped spacecraft launched today could overtake Voyager I within eight years, despite Voyager's 22-year head start. The idea for M2P2 grew from the study of plasma jets forming around young stars, and was formalized in a $75,000 startup grant from the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts. The system has built-in advantages over solar sails, which are very large, thin sheets of reflective material such as Mylar that can turn sunlight into a propelling force. Solar sails are typically many times larger than the spacecraft they propel and must be deployed mechanically. The M2P2 plasma chamber is far lighter and less bulky than sails. Just a few kilowatts of power would support the magnetic field and only about 100 pounds of additional propellant would be required. Adding the device to a spacecraft might cost $1 million, but it would provide substantial cost savings for the overall mission and would provide easier access to the planets and beyond, Winglee said. M2P2 could be a major advancement in space travel, but it might be too tame for two generations that have grown up with science-fiction adventures such as Star Trek and Star Wars. "It's amazing how many people say, 'That's not fast enough,'" Winglee said. "People want to go to warp drive so they can get to the next solar system." However, Star Trek's warp drive and the hyperdrive propulsion from Star Wars, both of which can exceed light speed (186,000 miles per second in a vacuum), are not possible under the current understanding of the laws of physics. For now, at least, plasma propulsion could prove to be the best option to the science fiction propulsion systems. If tests on M2P2 succeed, Winglee expects the system's first use in space will come on a mission NASA already will have scheduled. "If it works, we'll have some real fun then," he said. ### For more information, contact: Winglee at (206) 685-8160 or winglee@geophys.washington.edu Parks at (206) 543-0953 or parks@geophys.washington.edu Slough at (425) 881-7706 slough@aa.washington.edu Additional information is available via the Internet at http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Space/SpaceModel/M2P2/ -- Andrew Yee ayee@nova.astro.utoronto.ca From VM Tue Aug 17 16:39:37 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1197" "Tuesday" "17" "August" "1999" "18:20:15" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "39" "starship-design: Discrete Approaches to Quantum Gravity in Four Dimensions" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1197 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29650 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29645 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p277.gnt.com [204.49.91.37]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA13984 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:05 -0500 Message-ID: <003001bee908$369b7340$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEE8DE.4DC56B40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Discrete Approaches to Quantum Gravity in Four Dimensions Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:20:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEE8DE.4DC56B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are interested in gravity research, don't miss this paper. It is very thorough... Lee Parker http://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEE8DE.4DC56B40 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Discrete Approaches to Quantum Gravity in Four Dimensions.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Discrete Approaches to Quantum Gravity in Four Dimensions.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [DEFAULT] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/index= .html [DOC#4#5#6] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/menu.= html [DOC#4#5#7] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/conte= nts.html [DOC#4#8] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/artic= le.html [InternetShortcut] URL=3Dhttp://www.livingreviews.org/Articles/Volume1/1998-13loll/index.htm= l Modified=3D20BD27DC06E9BE018E ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEE8DE.4DC56B40-- From VM Wed Aug 18 10:07:31 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil t nil nil nil nil] ["1801" "Wednesday" "18" "August" "1999" "04:14:20" "-0700" "Im@x'99" "moonwalker@tiscalinet.it" "<009c01bee96b$4ee733e0$f0587bd4@hall2001>" "55" "starship-design: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:11:29 +0200" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1801 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24511 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 04:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (lyra.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.60]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24506 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 04:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall2001 (ca2-112.tiscalinet.it [212.123.88.240]) by lyra.tiscalinet.it (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16725 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:14:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <009c01bee96b$4ee733e0$f0587bd4@hall2001> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE97B.2F11D6A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Im@x'99" From: "Im@x'99" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:11:29 +0200 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 04:14:20 -0700 (PDT) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE97B.2F11D6A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all!=20 En attendant vos messages, je vous a' visiter mon site sur les trous = noirs a' l' adresse: http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri. Je serai tres content de recevoir vos impressions. =20 Navigate into my website:http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri. about = Blackholes and send me your opinions. =20 Mauro ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE97B.2F11D6A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi = all!=20
 
En attendant vos messages, je vous a' = visiter mon site=20 sur les trous noirs a' l' adresse: http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri.
Je serai tres content de = recevoir vos=20 impressions.
 
Navigate into my website:http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri.=20 about Blackholes and send me your opinions.
 
Mauro
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE97B.2F11D6A0-- From VM Wed Aug 18 15:43:01 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4812" "Wednesday" "18" "August" "1999" "17:23:07" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "98" "starship-design: Fw: Mystery Object in Space Confounds Astronomers (Fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4812 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17892 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17861 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p445.gnt.com [204.49.91.61]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA01120 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:40:55 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01bee9ca$a1e6b6b0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Fw: Mystery Object in Space Confounds Astronomers (Fwd) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:07 -0500 Observer wrote in message news:<7pe354$m6k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > New York Times / By John Noble Wilford - August 17 1999 > > Mystery object radiating deep in northern sky is no normal star, they > say. > > Astronomers have an unyielding mystery on their hands, something they > have observed and pondered for three years, a point of light deep in > the northern sky that appears to be like nothing seen before. > This may turn out to be only a curiosity, an odd variation of a > familiar phenomenon, or it may be the first evidence of some > unsuspected object with reverberating theoretical implications. > > The mystery object has so far confounded astronomers because they > cannot decipher the language of its light. Usually, by breaking down > the spectrum of light into its component elements and charting the > spikes and dips on a graph, astronomers can identify and describe an > object within minutes. > > In this case, however, astronomers are finding nothing familiar about > the light spectrum, a couple of Everests representing emissions from > the object surrounded by lower peaks and broad valleys of heavy > elements that blot out the true contours of the object's nature. "I've > never seen a spectrum anything like this, and I take spectra for a > living,'' said S. George Djorgovski, an astronomer at the California > Institute of Technology who is the leader of the sky survey that > detected the mystery object. > > Whatever the astronomers are seeing, it is probably not a star, at > least not any normal star. The light signature of stars is much simpler > than this object's. Nor is it a distant galaxy, which would have much > different light patterns. > > With little evidence and even less conviction, some astronomers > speculate that the object is a quasar, one of the sources of tremendous > energies at the farthest reaches of the universe where the enormous > gravitational power of black holes presumably gobbles up surrounding > matter. If it is a quasar, it must be a rare kind beyond current > understanding. > > "It doesn't look like a quasar to my eye, but I may be wrong,'' said > Dr. Wallace Sargent, a Caltech astronomer and quasar specialist, who is > also director of Palomar Observatory in Southern California, where the > discovery was made. So if it is not a normal star, galaxy or strange > quasar, astronomers say, the most intriguing possibility is that the > mystery object is announcing the existence of an entirely new cosmic > phenomenon. > > "But we must do everything to rule out the known before we postulate > that we have discovered something really and truly new,'' Djorgovski > said. > > Djorgovski and his team -- Dr. Stephen Odewahn, Dr. Robert Brunner and > Roy Gal, a graduate student -- examined the object's light spectrum. > Some of the lines of emissions, especially the two Everest spikes, > looked too sharp to be from a quasar. They combed the star catalogs and > published research papers but found nothing like it. > > A search in the archives of X-ray and infrared surveys failed to show > anything in those wavelengths at the location where the object's > visible light was detected. Radio antennas of the Very Large Array in > New Mexico scanned the same patch of sky. They picked up only weak > radio emissions from the region; many quasars have proved to be "radio > loud.'' > > "This was the first one of something new, and a complete mystery to > us,'' Djorgovski said. > > The next step for Djorgovski's team was to photograph the object again > and again. Some aspects of the spectrum reminded them of a supernova a > few days after the explosion. But in the pictures, the light from the > object did not die down, as it would as a supernova faded. > > Other examinations ruled out the possibility that the object was an > aging white dwarf star, where strong magnetic fields had distorted > normal spectral lines. Comparisons with all other examples of peculiar > stars also failed to suggest a solution. > > It is not even clear from the spectrum whether the object is extremely > far away or relatively close by. Distances are estimated by the shift > of light to the red end of the spectrum, a sign of the object's > velocity as it recedes from the observer in the expanding universe. > > In a presentation at the June meeting of the American Astronomical > Society in Chicago, Djorgovski issued a challenge to all colleagues to > help solve the mystery. > > "We may find it's a sub-sub-subspecies of quasars for which there may > be only one example,'' he said in an interview. Or it could be > something entirely new. "We can't think we have discovered all the > kinds of things there are out there,'' he added. > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From VM Wed Aug 18 15:43:01 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2586" "Wednesday" "18" "August" "1999" "17:35:18" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "40" "starship-design: Astronomers Baffled by Space Light" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2586 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17997 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17963 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p445.gnt.com [204.49.91.61]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA01128 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:40:57 -0500 Message-ID: <001001bee9ca$a5a2d450$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Astronomers Baffled by Space Light Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:35:18 -0500 Astronomers Baffled by Space Light By MATTHEW FORDAHL AP Science Writer LOS ANGELES (AP) - An arsenal of analytic tools used to figure out the makeup and distance of stars and galaxies has failed to unlock the secrets of a mysterious celestial light detected three years ago. ``It's fairly uncommon to stumble on something you don't have a clue about,'' astronomer S. George Djorgovski said Tuesday. ``It certainly hasn't happened to me, and I've been doing this for many years.'' Djorgovski was part of the team at Caltech's Palomar Observatory that detected the object, a pinpoint of light, during a digital survey of the northern sky. It remains one of the biggest mysteries uncovered by the Digital Palomar Sky Survey. The survey, which has collected information on more than 50 million galaxies and about 2 billion stars, is about two-thirds complete. Some astronomers believe the object may be a new class of quasar, sources of energy found in the center of galaxies and believed to be powered by matter falling into massive black holes. ``This sort of looks a little like them, but not quite. The similarity may be superficial,'' Djorgovski said. ``That's the closest thing we have found in all the astronomical literature.'' Usually, astronomers are able to determine an object's composition and distance by breaking down and analyzing its light. But the mystery object's spectrum does not fit any of the known patterns, Djorgovski said. Light also usually holds clues about an object's distance. But because graphs derived from the light do not match anything known, researchers aren't sure whether it is inside or outside the Milky Way galaxy. Repeated photographs revealed no changes in its appearance, ruling out the possibility that it's an exploding star or supernova. Djorgovski challenged fellow astronomers to help explain his discovery at the June meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Chicago. So far, nobody has produced an adequate explanation. ``We probably have looked at the spectra of several thousand quasars, and this just doesn't seem to fit,'' said David Crampton, an astronomer with the National Research Council of Canada. ``It didn't ring any bells.'' The next step will be to analyze the object's infrared spectrum, something Djorgovski hopes to do next month at the Keck Observatory in Hawaii. Researchers also hope that the Hubble Space Telescope might someday be pointed at the object, which is located in the constellation Serpens. ``But it's very competitive to get time on the Hubble, and they don't like fishing expeditions,'' he said. From VM Wed Aug 18 17:18:25 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["5005" "Wednesday" "18" "August" "1999" "19:12:11" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "107" "starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 5005 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11894 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11357 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p460.gnt.com [204.49.91.76]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA12893 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:13:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001201bee9d7$97a29e50$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:12:11 -0500 Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark BY JOHN NOBLE WILFORD New York Times Every night at their telescopes, astronomers invite the universe to a battle of wits. Surprise us, they say, with some teasing wink of light, some few cryptic clues to something unfamiliar and, better yet, an implied challenge to a cherished theory. In most cases, astronomers boast, we will have it figured out by dawn. Now astronomers have an unyielding mystery on their hands, something they have observed and pondered for three years, a point of light deep in the northern sky that appears to be like nothing seen before. This may turn out to be only a curiosity, an odd variation of a familiar phenomenon, or it may be the first evidence of some unsuspected object with reverberating theoretical implications -- similar in that sense to the recent detection of planets around other stars. No clues from spectrum The mystery object has so far confounded astronomers because they cannot decipher the language of its light. Usually, by breaking down the spectrum of light into its component elements and charting the spikes and dips on a graph, astronomers can identify and describe an object within minutes. In this case, however, astronomers are finding nothing familiar about the light spectrum, a couple of Everests representing emissions from the object surrounded by lower peaks and broad valleys of heavy elements that blot out the true contours of the object's nature. They are beginning to sympathize with archaeologists who sought to read Egyptian hieroglyphics without the Rosetta Stone. ``I've never seen a spectrum anything like this, and I take spectra for a living,'' said S. George Djorgovski, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology who is the leader of the sky survey that detected the mystery object. Whatever the astronomers are seeing, it is probably not a star, at least not any normal star. The light signature of stars is much simpler than this object's. Nor is it a distant galaxy, which would have much different light patterns. With little evidence and even less conviction, some astronomers speculate that the object is a quasar, one of the sources of tremendous energies at the farthest reaches of the universe where the enormous gravitational power of black holes presumably gobbles up surrounding matter. If it is a quasar, it must be a rare kind beyond current understanding. ``It doesn't look like a quasar to my eye, but I may be wrong,'' said Wallace Sargent, a Caltech astronomer and quasar specialist, who is also director of the Palomar Observatory in Southern California, where the discovery was made. So if it is not a normal star, galaxy or strange quasar, astronomers say, the most intriguing possibility is that the mystery object is announcing the existence of an entirely new cosmic phenomenon. ``But we must do everything to rule out the known before we postulate that we have discovered something really and truly new,'' Djorgovski said. New discoveries ahead Mystification is likely to be a more common experience in astronomy as more powerful telescopes and instruments with improved sensitivity are used for systematic probes deeper into the universe and over broader stretches of sky. Several comprehensive sky surveys under way or just beginning are expected to discover many rare or even previously unknown types of astronomical objects and forces. Exploring the entire northern sky in different color filters, for example, the Digital Palomar Sky Survey, now nearing completion, has collected data on more than 50 million galaxies and about 2 billion stars. The census has identified more than 70 quasars at such great distances that they are being seen at a time when the universe was less than 10 percent of its present age. One surprising discovery was a star like light several hundred times brighter than the galaxy with which it was associated. Astronomers are not sure, but they suspect they were seeing the after-effects of a gamma-ray burst, the most powerful events in the universe today. First detected in the 1960s, gamma-ray bursts are examples of an astronomical mystery that is only now being solved. Isolating rare points For the survey, astronomers devised computer programs to sift through processed photographs for star like objects, then distinguish the stars from galaxies and isolate rare points of light that are not immediately recognizable. This was how the new mystery object showed up. Djorgovski and his team examined the object's light spectrum. Some of the lines of emissions, especially the two Everest spikes, looked too sharp to be from a quasar. They combed the star catalogs and published research papers, but found nothing like it. A search in the archives of X-ray and infrared surveys failed to show anything in those wavelengths at the location where the object's visible light was detected. ``This was the first one of something new, and a complete mystery to us,'' Djorgovski said. From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2947" "Wednesday" "18" "August" "1999" "22:53:07" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "79" "starship-design: Fwd: Link to our web site" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Fwd: Link to our web site" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2947 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04077 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04071 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zVQUa07446 (4545) for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c0e12fea.24eccb93_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Fwd: Link to our web site Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:53:07 EDT --part1_c0e12fea.24eccb93_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_c0e12fea.24eccb93_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (rly-yb04.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.4]) by air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:46:53 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (v60.25) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:46:36 -0400 Received: from default ([12.77.208.14]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990818174635.DSVZ5700@default> for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:46:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000801bee980$55b280c0$0ed04d0c@default> Reply-To: "Lola Llamazales" From: "Lola Llamazales" To: Subject: Link to our web site Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:48:05 -0000 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE980.4CC1AF40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE980.4CC1AF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We design and manufacture submersibles for the ocean science industries. We = also sell designs, parts, and provide technical assistance to the homebuilt = market. We would like to have a link to our web site included in your page. = Please E-Mail us with your thoughts.=0D Charles Frazier=0D alola@worldnet.att.net=0D Our URL is http://home.att.net/~alola=0D -------------------- =0D =0D = =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D
=0D
We design and manufacture submersibles for = the =0D ocean science industries.  We also sell designs, parts, and provide =0D technical assistance to the homebuilt market. We would like to have a link t= o =0D our web site included in your page.  Please E-Mail us with your =0D thoughts.
=0D
Charles Frazier
=0D
alola@worldnet.att.net=0D =0D ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEE980.4CC1AF40-- --part1_c0e12fea.24eccb93_boundary-- From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["5522" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "18:39:50" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "ajcrowlx2@ozemail.com.au" nil "134" "Re: starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 5522 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04147 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep7.mail.ozemail.net (fep7.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.125]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04142 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ae04019.powerup.com.au [203.147.253.147]) by fep7.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA26053; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:39:02 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <007401beea1e$68431da0$93fd93cb@oemcomputer> References: <001201bee9d7$97a29e50$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "L. Parker" Cc: "starship design" Subject: Re: starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:39:50 +1000 It's a starship at relativistic speeds!!! A REALLY BIG One. maybe Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: L. Parker To: Starship-Design (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 10:12 AM Subject: starship-design: Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark > > Mysterious light leaves astronomers in the dark > > BY JOHN NOBLE WILFORD > New York Times > > Every night at their telescopes, astronomers invite the universe to a battle > of wits. Surprise us, they say, with some teasing wink of light, some few > cryptic clues to something unfamiliar and, better yet, an implied challenge > to a cherished theory. In most cases, astronomers boast, we will have it > figured out by dawn. > > Now astronomers have an unyielding mystery on their hands, something they > have observed and pondered for three years, a point of light deep in the > northern sky that appears to be like nothing seen before. > > This may turn out to be only a curiosity, an odd variation of a familiar > phenomenon, or it may be the first evidence of some unsuspected object with > reverberating theoretical implications -- similar in that sense to the > recent detection of planets around other stars. > > > No clues from spectrum > > The mystery object has so far confounded astronomers because they cannot > decipher the language of its light. Usually, by breaking down the spectrum > of light into its component elements and charting the spikes and dips on a > graph, astronomers can identify and describe an object within minutes. > > In this case, however, astronomers are finding nothing familiar about the > light spectrum, a couple of Everests representing emissions from the object > surrounded by lower peaks and broad valleys of heavy elements that blot out > the true contours of the object's nature. They are beginning to sympathize > with archaeologists who sought to read Egyptian hieroglyphics without the > Rosetta Stone. > > ``I've never seen a spectrum anything like this, and I take spectra for a > living,'' said S. George Djorgovski, an astronomer at the California > Institute of Technology who is the leader of the sky survey that detected > the mystery object. > > Whatever the astronomers are seeing, it is probably not a star, at least not > any normal star. The light signature of stars is much simpler than this > object's. Nor is it a distant galaxy, which would have much different light > patterns. > > With little evidence and even less conviction, some astronomers speculate > that the object is a quasar, one of the sources of tremendous energies at > the farthest reaches of the universe where the enormous gravitational power > of black holes presumably gobbles up surrounding matter. If it is a quasar, > it must be a rare kind beyond current understanding. > > ``It doesn't look like a quasar to my eye, but I may be wrong,'' said > Wallace Sargent, a Caltech astronomer and quasar specialist, who is also > director of the Palomar Observatory in Southern California, where the > discovery was made. > So if it is not a normal star, galaxy or strange quasar, astronomers say, > the most intriguing possibility is that the mystery object is announcing the > existence of an entirely new cosmic phenomenon. > > ``But we must do everything to rule out the known before we postulate that > we have discovered something really and truly new,'' Djorgovski said. > > > New discoveries ahead > > Mystification is likely to be a more common experience in astronomy as more > powerful telescopes and instruments with improved sensitivity are used for > systematic probes deeper into the universe and over broader stretches of > sky. > Several comprehensive sky surveys under way or just beginning are expected > to discover many rare or even previously unknown types of astronomical > objects and forces. > Exploring the entire northern sky in different color filters, for example, > the Digital Palomar Sky Survey, now nearing completion, has collected data > on more than 50 million galaxies and about 2 billion stars. The census has > identified more than 70 quasars at such great distances that they are being > seen at a time when the universe was less than 10 percent of its present > age. > > One surprising discovery was a star like light several hundred times > brighter than the galaxy with which it was associated. Astronomers are not > sure, but they suspect they were seeing the after-effects of a gamma-ray > burst, the most powerful events in the universe today. > First detected in the 1960s, gamma-ray bursts are examples of an > astronomical mystery that is only now being solved. > > > Isolating rare points > > For the survey, astronomers devised computer programs to sift through > processed photographs for star like objects, then distinguish the stars from > galaxies and isolate rare points of light that are not immediately > recognizable. This was how the new mystery object showed up. > > Djorgovski and his team examined the object's light spectrum. Some of the > lines of emissions, especially the two Everest spikes, looked too sharp to > be from a quasar. They combed the star catalogs and published research > papers, but found nothing like it. > > A search in the archives of X-ray and infrared surveys failed to show > anything in those wavelengths at the location where the object's visible > light was detected. > > ``This was the first one of something new, and a complete mystery to us,'' > Djorgovski said. > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["724" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "08:56:15" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "22" "starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 724 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15524 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.xoommail.com (colo01-033.xoom.com [206.132.179.33]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15519 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www2.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00384; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:56:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199908191556.IAA00384@www2.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:56:15 -0700 I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can give me a list of ways to convert plain ordinary air into plasma. It does not have to be really high temperature originally, I can take care of that myself. However, the power required to convert air into plasma has to be kept as low as possible. If it is not possible to convert regular air, some alternatives would be nice. Thank you, Fred Reyes ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1494" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "09:48:16" "-0700" "N. Lindberg" "nlindber@u.washington.edu" nil "41" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1494 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27735 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (root@jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27728 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dante18.u.washington.edu (nlindber@dante18.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.68]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id JAA14824; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:48:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (nlindber@localhost) by dante18.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id JAA63596; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:48:16 -0700 In-Reply-To: <199908191556.IAA00384@www2.xoommail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "N. Lindberg" From: "N. Lindberg" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Fred Reyes cc: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Fred, I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some ways that immediately spring to mind: 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas couple very well to RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a toothpick so that it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, and put it in your microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, the Oxy-Acetylene reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know of, at a few thousand degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. 3) In general, the more rarified the air, the lower the temperature required for ionization. Maybe run the air though a throat at high speeed. On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Fred Reyes wrote: > I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can give me a list of ways to > convert plain ordinary air into plasma. It does not have to be really high > temperature originally, I can take care of that myself. However, the power > required to convert air into plasma has to be kept as low as possible. If > it is not possible to convert regular air, some alternatives would be nice. > > Thank you, > Fred Reyes > > > > ______________________________ > How to find me: > AOLIM: Warlord400 > Personal Site: > http://www.go.to/fredreyes > > ______________________________________________________ > Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com > Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting > cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2244" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "15:16:10" "-0400" "Curtis L. Manges" "clmanges@worldnet.att.net" nil "53" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2244 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10450 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10445 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.123.55]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990819191655.ZYKU5700@worldnet.att.net>; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:16:55 +0000 Message-ID: <37BC57FA.85A3C7E8@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Curtis L. Manges" From: "Curtis L. Manges" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" , reyesfred@xoomail.com Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:16:10 -0400 The hottest thing I recall seeing was a plasma torch, used to cut heavy stainless steel plate. It used three kinds of gas, and I'm not positive what they were; I think one was inert (argon most likely) and another might have been nitrogen (!). This thing used a large welding machine for a power supply, likely pulling from 300 to 600 amps, and the welding arc created the plasma. Again, I'm uncertain, but I'd guess at nozzle temps above 7000° F. Ceramic nozzle, water-cooled head assembly. Call a welding supply shop for details. Oh, and get some good ear protectors; these things make a hellish racket. Hope this helps you. Curtis "N. Lindberg" wrote: > Fred, > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some ways that > immediately spring to mind: > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas couple very well to > RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a toothpick so that > it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, and put it in your > microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, the Oxy-Acetylene > reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know of, at a few thousand > degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. > 3) In general, the more rarified the air, the lower the > temperature required for ionization. Maybe run the air though a throat at > high speeed. > > On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Fred Reyes wrote: > > > I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can give me a list of ways to > > convert plain ordinary air into plasma. It does not have to be really high > > temperature originally, I can take care of that myself. However, the power > > required to convert air into plasma has to be kept as low as possible. If > > it is not possible to convert regular air, some alternatives would be nice. > > > > Thank you, > > Fred Reyes > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > How to find me: > > AOLIM: Warlord400 > > Personal Site: > > http://www.go.to/fredreyes > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com > > Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting > > cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com > > > > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2556" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "12:33:06" "-0700" "N. Lindberg" "nlindber@u.washington.edu" nil "66" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2556 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14994 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (root@jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14988 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dante41.u.washington.edu (nlindber@dante41.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.201]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA14056; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (nlindber@localhost) by dante41.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA33522; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: <37BC57FA.85A3C7E8@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by darkwing.uoregon.edu id MAA14989 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "N. Lindberg" From: "N. Lindberg" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Curtis L. Manges" cc: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" , reyesfred@xoomail.com Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Fred, Do you mind if I ask what the application is? I'm always interested to hear 'bout other list members' projects. Best Regards, Nels Lindberg On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Curtis L. Manges wrote: > The hottest thing I recall seeing was a plasma torch, used to cut > heavy stainless steel plate. It used three kinds of gas, and I'm not > positive what they were; I think one was inert (argon most likely) and > another might have been nitrogen (!). This thing used a large welding > machine for a power supply, likely pulling from 300 to 600 amps, and > the welding arc created the plasma. Again, I'm uncertain, but I'd > guess at nozzle temps above 7000° F. Ceramic nozzle, water-cooled head > assembly. Call a welding supply shop for details. Oh, and get some > good ear protectors; these things make a hellish racket. Hope this > helps you. > > Curtis > > "N. Lindberg" wrote: > > > Fred, > > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some ways that > > immediately spring to mind: > > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas couple very well to > > RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a toothpick so that > > it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, and put it in your > > microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, the Oxy-Acetylene > > reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know of, at a few thousand > > degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. > > 3) In general, the more rarified the air, the lower the > > temperature required for ionization. Maybe run the air though a throat at > > high speeed. > > > > On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Fred Reyes wrote: > > > > > I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can give me a list of ways to > > > convert plain ordinary air into plasma. It does not have to be really high > > > temperature originally, I can take care of that myself. However, the power > > > required to convert air into plasma has to be kept as low as possible. If > > > it is not possible to convert regular air, some alternatives would be nice. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Fred Reyes > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > How to find me: > > > AOLIM: Warlord400 > > > Personal Site: > > > http://www.go.to/fredreyes > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com > > > Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting > > > cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com > > > > > > > > > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["762" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "19:19:23" "-0500" "Kevin Houston" "Kevin@urly-bird.com" nil "16" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 762 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27745 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web12.ntx.net (web12.ntx.net [209.1.144.158]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27736 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from liberty (ip149.minneapolis5.mn.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.48.149]) by web12.ntx.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13332 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990819191653.026ed0e0@www.urly-bird.com> X-Sender: web121aa@www.urly-bird.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 In-Reply-To: References: <199908191556.IAA00384@www2.xoommail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Kevin Houston From: Kevin Houston Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:19:23 -0500 I tried the microwave method, and it's pretty cool, but I worry that it may damage my 'wave. Isn't a plasma not very different from a piece of tinfoil in this respect? At 09:48 AM 8/19/99 -0700, N. Lindberg wrote: >Fred, > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some ways that >immediately spring to mind: > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas couple very well to >RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a toothpick so that >it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, and put it in your >microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, the Oxy-Acetylene >reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know of, at a few thousand >degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1307" "Thursday" "19" "August" "1999" "19:04:54" "-0700" "Paul-V Khuong" "paul_virak_khuong@yahoo.com" nil "35" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1307 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13688 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web103.yahoomail.com (web103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.68]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13682 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990820020454.11036.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [24.200.138.100] by web103.yahoomail.com; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:04:54 PDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Paul-V Khuong From: Paul-V Khuong Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Starship Design Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Houston wrote: > I tried the microwave method, and it's pretty cool, > but I worry that it may > damage my 'wave. Isn't a plasma not very different > from a piece of tinfoil > in this respect? Yeah... Good Question! Especially when you live at your parent's place 8) > At 09:48 AM 8/19/99 -0700, N. Lindberg wrote: > >Fred, > > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some > ways that > >immediately spring to mind: > > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas > couple very well to > >RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a > toothpick so that > >it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, > and put it in your > >microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, > the Oxy-Acetylene > >reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know > of, at a few thousand > >degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. Oxy-Acetylene is plasma??? Well, anyway, how energetic has the RF to be??(It'd be a cool project... make your own plasma for less than 15 bucks(±)) And, how can you make the needed RFs(except than with a microwave 8)? === Vive le Québec libre... dé souverainistes!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1121" "Friday" "20" "August" "1999" "06:30:54" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "28" "starship-design: Plasma Project and strange light" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Plasma Project and strange light" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1121 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09838 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.xoommail.com (colo01-033.xoom.com [206.132.179.33]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09833 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www2.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29441; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:30:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199908201330.GAA29441@www2.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Plasma Project and strange light Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:30:54 -0700 Well I don't live at my parents home so I don't really have to worry about the microwave. It was a cool thing to see. I have been trying to make my own plasma container for under 100 bucks, but it seems to be a little fruitless. I will continue to try, though. I think I will have to spend a little more.....hehe. Any more ideas on the subject would be greatly appreciated. On a second note, I contacted Britt Scharringhausen from Cornell and asked him about the mysterious light that was posted earlier. It seems that even over the course of three years this thing has not moved enough to decide if it is a ship at relativistic or FTL speeds. I had a thought that may seem a little odd, but maybe feasible. Could it be we are seeing the first ever spotted Wormhole? Fred Reyes ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1909" "Friday" "20" "August" "1999" "16:15:23" "+0200" "Im@x'99" "moonwalker@tiscalinet.it" nil "59" "starship-design: Help me !" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Help me !" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1909 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14062 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crux.tiscalinet.it (crux.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.59]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14056 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall2001 (ca2-238.tiscalinet.it [212.123.89.110]) by crux.tiscalinet.it (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA28645 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:13:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000001beeb16$bc0059a0$6e597bd4@hall2001> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BEEB27.34A91260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Im@x'99" From: "Im@x'99" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Help me ! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:15:23 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BEEB27.34A91260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all! I'm from Italy.I'm a student and i speak a little English. Can you send = me one answer, please?: i don't remind the final calculation=20 (F=3D3x10^11 N) at my web page" Dentro il buco", about force of tide = into a black hole.=20 If you want to give me a hand: http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri E-mail: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it many thanks! Mauro. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BEEB27.34A91260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all!
I'm from Italy.I'm a student and i = speak a=20 little English. Can you send me one answer, please?: i don't remind the = final=20 calculation
(F=3D3x10^11 N) at my web page" = Dentro il buco", about  force of = tide  into=20 a black hole.
If you want to give me a hand: http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri
E-mail: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it
many thanks!
 
Mauro.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BEEB27.34A91260-- From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1759" "Friday" "20" "August" "1999" "07:39:47" "-0700" "N. Lindberg" "nlindber@u.washington.edu" nil "49" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1759 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17027 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (root@jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17022 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dante36.u.washington.edu (nlindber@dante36.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.196]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA19032; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:39:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (nlindber@localhost) by dante36.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA111738; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:39:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: <19990820020454.11036.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by darkwing.uoregon.edu id HAA17023 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "N. Lindberg" From: "N. Lindberg" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Paul-V Khuong cc: Starship Design Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:39:47 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > Kevin Houston wrote: > > I tried the microwave method, and it's pretty cool, > > but I worry that it may > > damage my 'wave. Isn't a plasma not very different > > from a piece of tinfoil > > in this respect? > Yeah... Good Question! > Especially when you live at your parent's place 8) > > At 09:48 AM 8/19/99 -0700, N. Lindberg wrote: > > >Fred, > > > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some > > ways that > > >immediately spring to mind: > > > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas > > couple very well to > > >RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > > > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a > > toothpick so that > > >it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, > > and put it in your > > >microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, > > the Oxy-Acetylene > > >reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know > > of, at a few thousand > > >degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. Paul, I'm not really sure if Oxy-Acetylene is a plasma by any strict definition. However, there is electron transfer occuring, and I wouldn't be surprised if the part of the flame where actual combustion occurs reacts to RF just like the toothpick. Maybe try making a coil attatched to a transmitter and turn on the torch. Nels > Oxy-Acetylene is plasma??? > Well, anyway, how energetic has the RF to be??(It'd be a cool > project... make your own plasma for less than 15 bucks(±)) > And, how can you make the needed RFs(except than with a microwave 8)? > === > Vive le Québec libre... dé souverainistes!!! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2481" "Friday" "20" "August" "1999" "15:13:10" "-0400" "Curtis L. Manges" "clmanges@worldnet.att.net" nil "62" "Re: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2481 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19460 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19454 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.76.96.252]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990820191406.PNPK18791@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:14:06 +0000 Message-ID: <37BDA8C6.C20732A0@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Curtis L. Manges" From: "Curtis L. Manges" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:13:10 -0400 A couple more notes on this, esoteric, perhaps useful, perhaps not: (1) flames do respond to electrical signals. At least as early as the 1960's, there have been designs for loudspeakers which substituted a gas flame for the coil and diaphragm of a typical loudspeaker; they required an additional special amplifier and featured a pair of non-consumable electrodes positioned in the flame. (2) RF transmitters can be quite simple in design, and easy to build. I don't think you need much sophistication for this experiment; just make sure the output either stays contained or meets FCC regs. Curtis "N. Lindberg" wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > > > Kevin Houston wrote: > > > I tried the microwave method, and it's pretty cool, > > > but I worry that it may > > > damage my 'wave. Isn't a plasma not very different > > > from a piece of tinfoil > > > in this respect? > > Yeah... Good Question! > > Especially when you live at your parent's place 8) > > > At 09:48 AM 8/19/99 -0700, N. Lindberg wrote: > > > >Fred, > > > > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some > > > ways that > > > >immediately spring to mind: > > > > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas > > > couple very well to > > > >RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > > > > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a > > > toothpick so that > > > >it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, > > > and put it in your > > > >microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, > > > the Oxy-Acetylene > > > >reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know > > > of, at a few thousand > > > >degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. > > Paul, > I'm not really sure if Oxy-Acetylene is a plasma by any strict > definition. However, there is electron transfer occuring, and I wouldn't > be surprised if the part of the flame where actual combustion occurs > reacts to RF just like the toothpick. Maybe try making a coil attatched > to a transmitter and turn on the torch. > Nels > > > Oxy-Acetylene is plasma??? > > Well, anyway, how energetic has the RF to be??(It'd be a cool > > project... make your own plasma for less than 15 bucks(±)) > > And, how can you make the needed RFs(except than with a microwave 8)? > > === > > Vive le Québec libre... dé souverainistes!!! > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2890" "Friday" "20" "August" "1999" "16:23:19" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "76" "RE: starship-design: plasma sources" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: plasma sources" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2890 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18727 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18717 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p463.gnt.com [204.49.91.79]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA08881; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:03:07 -0500 Message-ID: <002901beeb81$9a378170$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "'N. Lindberg'" , "'Paul-V Khuong'" Cc: "'Starship Design'" Subject: RE: starship-design: plasma sources Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:23:19 -0500 Strictly speaking, oxy-acetylene (or any standard welding apparatus) is not a plasma. There are, however, commercially available plasma torches. They are quite expensive, but not as expensive as a commercial laser welder for instance. A lot of work has gone on recently using RF heating as has been previously mentioned. In fact, the only system that meets the definition of high impulse and high thrust that is anywhere near operational testing is based on RF heating (it is a huge microwave tube heating a standard magnetically confined plasma). If you are experimenting on these lines, look for information on VASIMR, however, I have found that a great deal of what WAS posted on the web has been censored...and is no longer there! Lee Parker > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of > N. Lindberg > Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 9:40 AM > To: Paul-V Khuong > Cc: Starship Design > Subject: Re: starship-design: plasma sources > > > > On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Paul-V Khuong wrote: > > > Kevin Houston wrote: > > > I tried the microwave method, and it's pretty cool, > > > but I worry that it may > > > damage my 'wave. Isn't a plasma not very different > > > from a piece of tinfoil > > > in this respect? > > Yeah... Good Question! > > Especially when you live at your parent's place 8) > > > At 09:48 AM 8/19/99 -0700, N. Lindberg wrote: > > > >Fred, > > > > I'm no expert on plasma physics, but here are some > > > ways that > > > >immediately spring to mind: > > > > 1) Spark gap + RF heating of the air. Plasmas > > > couple very well to > > > >RF, and most of the energy gets turned into heat. > > > > 2)High temp combustion + RF. Sometime, bend a > > > toothpick so that > > > >it stands with one end pointing up, light that end, > > > and put it in your > > > >microwave. I think they're kind of pretty. Also, > > > the Oxy-Acetylene > > > >reaction is the hottest type of combustion I know > > > of, at a few thousand > > > >degrees, Kind of dangerous stuff though. > > Paul, > I'm not really sure if Oxy-Acetylene is a plasma by any strict > definition. However, there is electron transfer occuring, and > I wouldn't > be surprised if the part of the flame where actual combustion occurs > reacts to RF just like the toothpick. Maybe try making a > coil attatched > to a transmitter and turn on the torch. > Nels > > > Oxy-Acetylene is plasma??? > > Well, anyway, how energetic has the RF to be??(It'd be a cool > > project... make your own plasma for less than 15 bucks(±)) > > And, how can you make the needed RFs(except than with a > microwave 8)? > > === > > Vive le Québec libre... dé souverainistes!!! > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["6229" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "07:57:55" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "178" "starship-design: Fwd: ISO detects signal from dark matter in a galaxy similar to the Milky Way" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Fwd: ISO detects signal from dark matter in a galaxy similar to the Milky Way" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 6229 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28696 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28677 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA24773 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:52:56 -0500 Message-ID: <003201beebdc$613f8d80$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Fwd: ISO detects signal from dark matter in a galaxy similar to the Milky Way Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:57:55 -0500 > ESA Science News > http://sci.esa.int > > 17 Aug 1999 > > ISO detects signal from dark matter in a galaxy similar to the Milky Way > > Galaxies are known to have much more matter than telescopes can currently see. > Up to 90% of the total mass of the galaxies is simply missing: it has to be > there, astronomers know, but it remains undetected. Is this so-called 'dark > matter' made up of exotic, virtually undetectable particles, or is it merely > ordinary matter hidden to instruments for some reason? A new result obtained by > a Dutch team with the European Space Agency's infrared space telescope, ISO, > favours the last idea. > > They have detected in the disk of a galaxy the molecule of hydrogen, considered > an important component of the dark matter if it is of the normal, ordinary type. > Moreover, the molecular hydrogen is found precisely in the amount needed to fill > the missing-mass gap. > > "0ur results give a much stronger footing for the 'ordinary matter' simple > solution of the dark matter problem, in the form of massive clouds in the disks > of galaxies", says the main author of the finding Edwin A. Valentijn, from the > Kapteyn Institute in Groningen (The Netherlands). > > Astronomers discovered the existence of the dark matter long ago, by measuring > the motion of the stars and gas in spiral galaxies: the velocity of this motion > corresponds to a certain amount of mass in the galaxy, and measurements showed > that the stars and the gas are moving too fast for the amount of mass detected. > Several hypotheses have been made to explain the nature of this missing mass. > While some consider it to be made of 'exotic' particles very difficult to > detect, such as neutrinos, others point to ordinary matter -- 'baryonic matter', > in scientific terms -- which for some reason remains hidden. > > One of the findings helping to build the 'normal matter' explanation was > obtained a decade ago by Valentijn himself. In 1989 he measured the brightness > of 2,500 spiral galaxies, to determine whether these objects were transparent or > opaque. Until then, most astronomers had assumed that spiral galaxies were > basically transparent, this meaning that most light coming from the normal > matter present would be freely emitted -- thus, the matter would be bright. On > the contrary, Valentijn found that spiral galaxies are heavily obscured by their > own interstellar dust. Could the dark matter, or at least part of it, simply be > the gas frequently associated with this interstellar dust? > > If that was the case, the gas had to be made up mostly of hydrogen in the > molecular form. Hence,Valentijn and his co-author van der Werf started a search > for molecular hydrogen, which is extremely difficult to observe. Emission from > this molecule can only be detected with highly sensitive infrared telescopes, > and ESA's ISO has allowed the study of molecular hydrogen in unprecedented detail. > > Using the spectrometer SWS on board ISO the Dutch team focused on a spiral > galaxy called NGC 891, 30 million light-years away and very similar to our own > galaxy, the Milky Way. Measurements were made in 8 different positions in the > disk of NGC 891. > > "The surprise is that we detect molecular hydrogen everywhere where we looked! > Our team was the only one who thought the measurement was feasible, as no other > ISO-observations of this kind were programmed", Valentijn says. > > Moreover, the team found molecular hydrogen in the amount needed to account for > the missing mass. This is established as a value relative to the amount of > hydrogen in the atomic form (one molecule of hydrogen is made of two atoms of > hydrogen). In NGC 891, Valentijn shows that there is 5 to 15 times more > molecular than atomic hydrogen. > > As the Dutch astronomer explains, "it is well established that if there is about > 10 times as much molecular hydrogen as atomic hydrogen in the disks of spiral > galaxies, then the missing mass problem is resolved. In the case of NGC 891we > find about 5-15 times as much molecular hydrogen as atomic hydrogen". > > Since NGC 891 is a rather common galaxy, it is "reasonable" -- the authors say > -- to expect the result to hold for other normal galaxies too. However, the team > warns that no other alternative dark matter model can be ruled out. > > According to Valentijn, "the problem is complex enough to avoid drawing quick > conclusions, and of course more observations should be made". > > The discovery has been accepted for publication in the Astrophysical Journal Letters. > > FOOTNOTE ON ISO > > The European Space Agency's infrared space telescope, ISO, operated from > November 1995 till May 1998, almost a year longer than expected. As an > unprecedented observatory for infrared astronomy, able to examine cool and > hidden places in the Universe, ISO successfully made nearly 30 000 scientific observations. > > FOR MORE INFORMATION AND ISO PICTURES > > ESA Public Relations Division > Tel: +33(0)1.53.69.71.55, Fax: +33(0)1.53.69.76.90 > > Martin F. Kessler (ISO Project Scientist) > Tel: +34 918131254, mkessler@iso.vilspa.esa.es > > OTHER SCIENCE CONTACTS: > > Edwin Valentijn > Kapteyn Institute > Groningen (The Netherlands) > valentyn@astro.rug.nl, Tel: +31 50 3634011 > > Thijs de Graauw > ISO SWS Principal Investigator > Tel: +31-50-3634074, thijsdg@sron.rug.nl, Th.de.Graauw@sron.rug.nl > > USEFUL LINKS FOR THIS STORY > > ISO science web site > http://isowww.estec.esa.nl > > NOAO images of NGC891 > http://www.noao.edu/image_gallery/html/im0002.html > > More about ISO > http://sci.esa.int/iso > > ISO SWS page > http://www.sron.rug.nl/iso/sws.html > > [NOTE: An image supporting this article is available at > http://sci.esa.int/story.cfm?TypeID=1&ContentID=6311&Storytype=18] If this is true, perhaps we can revive the interstellar ram jet idea... Lee Parker ================,,,========================= ===============(o o)======================== ===========oOO==(_)==OOo==================== lparker@cacaphony.net ===========ooooO==Ooooo===================== ===========( )==( )===================== ============\ (====) /====================== =============\_)==(_/======================= From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["227" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "08:29:54" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "7" "starship-design: Thermonuclear Fusion Propulsion" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Thermonuclear Fusion Propulsion" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 227 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28713 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28707 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA24788 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:53:01 -0500 Message-ID: <003401beebdc$6443f3e0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Thermonuclear Fusion Propulsion Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:29:54 -0500 For those who like the technical details, as well as a great basic introduction to fusion propulsion in general, this is a more detailed page at the same site: http://infinity.msfc.nasa.gov/Public/ps01/fusion.html Lee Parker From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["143" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "08:21:32" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "6" "starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 143 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28701 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28691 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA24780 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:52:59 -0500 Message-ID: <003301beebdc$632d05a0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:21:32 -0500 Here is a link to a plasma/fusion engine under development by NASA.... http://infinity.msfc.nasa.gov/Public/ps01/fusion_exp.html Lee Parker From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["706" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "09:06:51" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "26" "starship-design: Study Abstract" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Study Abstract" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 706 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00167 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00161 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA26900 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:16:01 -0500 Message-ID: <003901beebdf$9afa4580$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BEEBB5.B2243D80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Study Abstract Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:06:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BEEBB5.B2243D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Second page of the abstracts... http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9802/slough.html Lee Parker ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BEEBB5.B2243D80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Study Abstract.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Study Abstract.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9802/slough.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9802/slough.html Modified=F0EEDA47DEEBBE0187 ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BEEBB5.B2243D80-- From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["793" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "09:02:12" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "28" "starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 793 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00155 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00145 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA26891 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:15:58 -0500 Message-ID: <003501beebdf$99628e80$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BEEBB5.B08C8680" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:02:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BEEBB5.B08C8680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOTS of abstracts on current propulsion and power research, including the M2P2 paper and the EST paper... http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/index.html Lee Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BEEBB5.B08C8680 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Funded Phase I Studies.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Funded Phase I Studies.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/index.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/index.html Modified=90343491DDEBBE0110 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BEEBB5.B08C8680-- From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["66" "Saturday" "21" "August" "1999" "12:19:22" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "5" "starship-design: Mysterious Object" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: Mysterious Object" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 66 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16094 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16089 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p462.gnt.com [204.49.91.78]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA12744 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:22:15 -0500 Message-ID: <004201beebf9$9eab67d0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Mysterious Object Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:19:22 -0500 Link: http://astro.caltech.edu/~george/dposs/pr.html Lee Parker From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1338" "Tuesday" "24" "August" "1999" "00:33:27" "+0200" "Im@x'99" "moonwalker@tiscalinet.it" nil "45" "starship-design: easy or no easy?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: easy or no easy?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1338 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19213 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (lyra.tiscalinet.it [195.130.224.60]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19206 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moonwalker (ca2-199.tiscalinet.it [212.123.89.71]) by lyra.tiscalinet.it (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA04775 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:30:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <005301beedb7$94d779a0$47597bd4@moonwalker> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BEEDC8.482B6C40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Im@x'99" From: "Im@x'99" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: easy or no easy? Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:33:27 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BEEDC8.482B6C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all! Can you send me one answer, please?: i don't remind the final calculation (F=3D3x10^11 N) at my web page" Dentro il buco", about tidal force into = a black hole. http://web.tiscalinet.it/buchineri E-mail: moonwalker@tiscalinet.it many thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BEEDC8.482B6C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all!
Can you send me
one answer, please?: i = don't=20 remind the final calculation
(F=3D3x10^11 N) at my web page" Dentro = il buco",=20 about  tidal force into a
black hole.
http://web.tiscalinet.it/buch= ineri
E-mail:=20 moonwalker@tiscalinet.it
= many=20 thanks!

------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BEEDC8.482B6C40-- From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["379" "Monday" "23" "August" "1999" "23:43:08" "+0100" "Timothy van der Linden" "Shealiak@XS4ALL.nl" nil "12" "Re: starship-design: easy or no easy?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: easy or no easy?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 379 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23712 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl (smtp7.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.50]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23707 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from - (dc2-modem685.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.130.173]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA11854 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:49:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990823234308.0068a574@pop.xs4all.nl> X-Sender: shealiak@pop.xs4all.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) In-Reply-To: <005301beedb7$94d779a0$47597bd4@moonwalker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Timothy van der Linden From: Timothy van der Linden Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: easy or no easy? Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:43:08 +0100 Hello Im@x, If you didn't know it yet, this mailing list is in English. I'd guess that very few of the people subscribed are able to understand Italian. So it might be a good idea to not point the members of the list to a site that only supports the Italian language. Repeating the message (3 times) will not make our understanding of Italian any better. Buon giorno, Timothy From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:54 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["863" "Monday" "23" "August" "1999" "17:53:27" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "25" "Re: starship-design: easy or no easy?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: easy or no easy?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 863 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07085 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07078 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin60.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.60]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29535 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37C1DEF7.1B9D4A5C@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3.0.1.32.19990823234308.0068a574@pop.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: Re: starship-design: easy or no easy? Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:53:27 -0600 Timothy van der Linden wrote: > > Hello Im@x, > > If you didn't know it yet, this mailing list is in English. I'd guess that > very few of the people subscribed are able to understand Italian. So it > might be a good idea to not point the members of the list to a site that > only supports the Italian language. > Repeating the message (3 times) will not make our understanding of Italian > any better. > > Buon giorno, > > Timothy Nor will responding back to a Italian in English be that wise? Perhaps we need a few people to translate then or find a translation program on the web to translate on the fly, for the people that don't speak English. Good ideas need not be hampered by language. Ben. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:55 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["621" "Monday" "23" "August" "1999" "21:27:41" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "21" "RE: starship-design: easy or no easy?" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: easy or no easy?" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 621 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00326 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00320 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p473.gnt.com [204.49.91.89]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA30058 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: <001201beedd8$4a35c7f0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37C1DEF7.1B9D4A5C@jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: RE: starship-design: easy or no easy? Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:27:41 -0500 AltaVista will translate for you... Lee Parker > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Ben > Franchuk > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 6:53 PM > To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > Subject: Re: starship-design: easy or no easy? > Nor will responding back to a Italian in English be that wise? > Perhaps we need a few people to translate then or find a > translation program on > the web > to translate on the fly, for the people that don't speak > English. Good ideas > need not be hampered by language. > Ben. > From VM Thu Aug 26 09:56:55 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["743" "Thursday" "26" "August" "1999" "09:29:08" "-0700" "Fred Reyes" "reyesfred@xoommail.com" nil "21" "starship-design: maser heating of plasma" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil "starship-design: maser heating of plasma" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 743 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21888 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www1.xoommail.com (colo01-031.xoom.com [206.132.179.31]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21883 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from service@localhost) by www1.xoommail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05940; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:29:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199908261629.JAA05940@www1.xoommail.com> X-Loop: xoommail.com Organization: Reyes Enterprises Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Fred Reyes From: Fred Reyes Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: maser heating of plasma Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:29:08 -0700 Hello folks, I was wondering, would a MASER be a good way to heat plasma? I know that microwaves are sometimes used to pump energy into the secondary coil in some tokamak designs, but it is never mentioned (at least not that I know of) if it has been attempted with one or more masers. Anyone know how to build a maser? My idea involves using the plasma as a sort of heat storage battery. Any ideas? Fred Reyes ______________________________ How to find me: AOLIM: Warlord400 Personal Site: http://www.go.to/fredreyes ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com From VM Fri Aug 27 09:53:53 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["610" "Thursday" "26" "August" "1999" "22:16:41" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "22" "Re: starship-design: maser heating of plasma" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 610 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02666 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02661 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id vBVZa05147 (3930); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: reyesfred@xoommail.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: maser heating of plasma Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:16:41 EDT In a message dated 8/26/99 11:30:27 AM, reyesfred@xoommail.com writes: >Hello folks, >I was wondering, would a MASER be a good way to heat plasma? I know that > >microwaves are sometimes used to pump energy into the secondary coil in > >some tokamak designs, but it is never mentioned (at least not that I know > >of) if it has been attempted with one or more masers. Anyone know how >to >build a maser? My idea involves using the plasma as a sort of heat storage > >battery. Any ideas? > >Fred Reyes You could certainly heat plasma that way, but I can't see how you could store heat that way? Kelly From VM Mon Aug 30 10:07:15 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["5628" "Saturday" "28" "August" "1999" "21:49:17" "+0200" "Zenon Kulpa" "zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" nil "113" "starship-design: URANOS Club Newsletter No. 3." "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 5628 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27443 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (zmit1.ippt.gov.pl [148.81.53.8]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27437 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from zkulpa@localhost) by zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (8.8.5/8.7.3-zmit) id VAA19250 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:49:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908281949.VAA19250@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Zenon Kulpa From: Zenon Kulpa Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: URANOS Club Newsletter No. 3. Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:49:17 +0200 (MET DST) --------------------------------------------------------------- --> http://www.uranos.eu.org/ <-- * * **** *** * * *** **** * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * **** ***** * * * * * *** * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * *** * * * * * * *** **** CLUB * for * EXPANSION * of * CIVILIZATION * into * SPACE --------------------------------------------------------------- No. 3 URANOS CLUB NEWSLETTER 27.VIII.1999 This is the new issue of our irregularly published electronic newsletter. To receive further issues of this newsletter, please send please send a letter stating so to the address: --------------------------------------------------------------- Changes to the URANOS site: --------------------------- - The Club website is now accessible at two addresses - the old one ( http://www.uranos.eu.org/ ), and a new one, with Polish domain ( http://www.uranos.org.pl/ ). It makes us more visible to Polish web indexes. The old address now automatically directs the incoming access requests to the English version of the site, while the new one accesses the Polish version first. Of course, once at the site, you may switch freely between both versions of all bilingual pages. - We have extended the site significantly with new sections "Poland and Poles in space exploration" and "Mars exploration". - The new Polish section contains: -- information about Polish space research institutions (research institutes, university faculties, astronomical observatories, planetariums) - addresses (postal and electronic), phone numbers, links to WWW sites; -- information about Polish organizations related to space exploration - addresses (postal and electronic), phone numbers, links to WWW sites, publications; -- a list of space objects with names of Polish origin; -- information about Polish scientists who made significant contributions to space exploration - short biographical notes like that found on the main explorers page; -- information about Polish cosmonauts and astronauts. - The section on Mars exploration initiates a new large section "The Settler's Guide to the Solar System", and includes: -- general astronomical and physical data on Mars, with a short commentary; -- an extensive list of links to the most interesting websites on Mars and its exploration; -- a description of Robert Zubrin's "Mars Direct" proposal for manned missions to Mars; -- information about The Mars Society, including its Founding Declaration (both in English and Polish) and information about its recently formed Polish chapter (named "Mars Society Polska") with which our Club started a close collaboration. - We have added many new links - in the list of Polish space websites, and in the general list of recommended websites (including a whole new category "Transport to orbit" and significant enlargement of the "Commercial activity in space" category). We also have done a general checking of the links, deleting the dead ones and updating many others. - We have added two new entries to our list of recommended Polish-language books ("Comets" by Yeomans and advance notice of the "NASA Solar System Atlas"). - Portraits of great contributors to space exploration have been added to our biographical pages. - We have introduced numerous improvements of navigation aids, graphics, etc., and corrected various errors. Other information: ------------------ - Our appeal for help in verifying the English language versions of our pages drew the response of several people. Currently two persons are helping us to do this - thank you! - Now we are looking for people willing to translate our remaining Polish texts into English - our only translator noticeably lags behind schedule... - On the list of our site contributors we distinguish the positions of Site Editors - those members of our group who personally have developed and maintained some sections or parts of our pages. - The discussion list now counts 36 subscribers. Special information - The URANOS Club is now one year old! ---------------------------------------------------------- - On August 18, 1999 exactly one year has passed since the official appearance of our site on the Web. In that time our site has been rebuilt and extended several times, gathering many new supporters and sympathizers of our Club, on our two e-mail lists and , and on the distribution list for the Club Bulletin. An excerpt from the usage statistics for the first year of activity shows among others: -- the total number of hits: over 65,000; -- average numbers of hits: . per month: around 5,000 (peak values: 7,417 in April, 7,414 in May, and 7,098 in July of 1999), . per day: around 170 (peak values: 811 on Aug. 28, 1998, 831 on Dec. 9, 1998, and 704 on Apr. 10, 1999 r.). -- the principal domains of the visitors: over 60% from Poland; over ten percent "unknown" and the US (mostly .com, and some .edu), then .net, followed by the rest of the world (one percent or less for the domain), from all continents, including New Zealand, Taiwan, Brasil, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------- Please forward! From VM Mon Aug 30 10:07:15 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["97" "Saturday" "28" "August" "1999" "21:07:40" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "5" "starship-design: Space Transportation Programs" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 97 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26163 for starship-design-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26158 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p479.gnt.com [204.49.91.95]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA08739 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:18:39 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01bef1c4$b39011c0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Space Transportation Programs Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:07:40 -0500 Here is a really neat site with lots of graphics. http://www.highway2space.com/ Lee Parker From VM Mon Aug 30 10:07:15 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["153" "Sunday" "29" "August" "1999" "13:01:12" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "7" "starship-design: Backward Causation and the EPR Paradox " "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 153 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10249 for starship-design-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10244 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p435.gnt.com [204.49.91.51]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA02510 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:02:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bef248$8cc76f00$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: Backward Causation and the EPR Paradox Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:01:12 -0500 Here is a link to a paper that I am sure will stir up a little controversy...its been too quiet lately! http://xxx.lanl.gov/html/quant-ph/9810060 Lee From VM Mon Aug 30 16:21:26 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2261" "Monday" "30" "August" "1999" "19:18:49" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "67" "Fwd: RE: starship-design: Space Transportation Programs" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2261 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25831 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25819 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zXWJa22755 (4413) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c1e0cd7e.24fc6b59_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Fwd: RE: starship-design: Space Transportation Programs Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:49 EDT --part1_c1e0cd7e.24fc6b59_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_c1e0cd7e.24fc6b59_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (rly-zc02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.2]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:43:50 -0400 Received: from bastion3.mail.sprint.com (bastion3.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.131]) by rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:43:39 -0400 Received: from sii01.mail.sprint.com by bastion3.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP for KellySt@aol.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:43:38 -0500 Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:43:37 -0500 Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA04077 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:43:36 -0500 (CDT) From: kelly g starks Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA06803 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:43:35 -0500 (CDT) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:43:35 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: RE: starship-design: Space Transportation Programs TO: KellySt@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0441b17a-00000001" --openmail-part-0441b17a-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable definitely good site, odd that they have added this new address rather then the NASA center URL for that group. PR I guess. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: KellySt [SMTP:KellySt@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 9:08 PM To: starship-design Cc: lparker Subject: starship-design: Space Transportation Programs =20 Here is a really neat site with lots of graphics. =20 http://www.highway2space.com/ =20 Lee Parker =20 =20 --openmail-part-0441b17a-00000001-- --part1_c1e0cd7e.24fc6b59_boundary-- From VM Mon Aug 30 16:21:26 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1956" "Monday" "30" "August" "1999" "19:18:51" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "34" "starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1956 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25951 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25945 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zLWCa22963 (4413) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <11c764ce.24fc6b5b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:51 EDT I wonder if this could be used effectively as an interstellar break? Nothing in the paper talks about effective ISP or power consumption vrs thrust. Kelly http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/winglee.html The Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system provides a revolutionary means for spacecraft propulsion that can efficiently utilize the energy from the space plasmas to accelerate payloads to much higher speeds than can be attained by present chemical (oxidizing propulsion systems. The system utilizes an innovative configuration of existing technology based on well established principles of plasma physics. It has the potential of feasibly providing cheap, fast propulsion that could power Interstellar Probe, as well as powering payloads that would be required for a manned mission to Mars. As such the proposed work for missions out of the solar system and between the planets. The project is interdisciplinary involving space science, plasma engineering, and aeronautics and space transportation, which are key components of NIAC's program. The M2P2 system utilizes low energy plasma to transport or inflate a magnetic field beyond the typical scale lengths that can be supported by a standard solenoid magnetic field coil. In space, the inflated magnetic field can be used to reflect high speed (400 - 1000 km/s) solar wind particles and attain unprecedented acceleration for a power input of only a few kW which can be easily achieved by solar electric units. Our initial estimates for a minimum system can provide a typical thrust of about 3 Newton continuous (0.6 MW continuous power), with a specific impulse of 104 to 105s) to produce an increase in speed of about 30 km/s in a period of 3 months. Proposed optimization could allow the development of system that increase the acceleration with less expenditure of fuel so that a mission could leave the solar system could become a reality. From VM Mon Aug 30 16:21:26 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4566" "Monday" "30" "August" "1999" "19:18:47" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "150" "Fwd: RE: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4566 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25758 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25753 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zKPYa14800 (4413) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f3e10f39.24fc6b57_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Fwd: RE: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:47 EDT --part1_f3e10f39.24fc6b57_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/30/99 9:20:43 AM, kelly.g.starks@mail.sprint.com writes: >I've seen a couple comments and proposals by NASA showing they are > >seriously looking into fusion system. They realize chemical propulsion > >is to limited, and nuclear is to politically unpopular. > > > >Kelly > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: KellySt [SMTP:KellySt@aol.com] > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 8:22 AM > > To: starship-design > > Cc: lparker > > Subject: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines > > > > Here is a link to a plasma/fusion engine under development by > > NASA.... > > > > http://infinity.msfc.nasa.gov/Public/ps01/fusion_exp.html > > > > > > Lee Parker > > > > > > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-za05.mx.aol.com (rly-za05.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.101]) >by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:20:43 >-0400 >Received: from bastion3.mail.sprint.com (bastion3.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.131]) >by rly-za05.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:20:33 -0400 >Received: from sii01.mail.sprint.com by bastion3.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP >for KellySt@aol.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:20:32 -0500 >Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Mon, >30 Aug 1999 09:17:25 -0500 >Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) > by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA12423 > for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:24 -0500 (CDT) >From: kelly g starks >Received: from localhost (root@localhost) > by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA22358 > for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:23 -0500 (CDT) >X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:22 -0500 >Message-Id: >Subject: RE: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines >TO: KellySt@aol.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="openmail-part-04425c32-00000001" > --part1_f3e10f39.24fc6b57_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za05.mx.aol.com (rly-za05.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.101]) by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:20:43 -0400 Received: from bastion3.mail.sprint.com (bastion3.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.131]) by rly-za05.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:20:33 -0400 Received: from sii01.mail.sprint.com by bastion3.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP for KellySt@aol.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:20:32 -0500 Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:25 -0500 Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA12423 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:24 -0500 (CDT) From: kelly g starks Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA22358 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:23 -0500 (CDT) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:22 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: RE: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines TO: KellySt@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-04425c32-00000001" --openmail-part-04425c32-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've seen a couple comments and proposals by NASA showing they are seriously looking into fusion system. They realize chemical propulsion is to limited, and nuclear is to politically unpopular. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: KellySt [SMTP:KellySt@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 8:22 AM To: starship-design Cc: lparker Subject: starship-design: Plasma/Fusion Engines =20 Here is a link to a plasma/fusion engine under development by NASA.... =20 http://infinity.msfc.nasa.gov/Public/ps01/fusion_exp.html =20 =20 Lee Parker =20 =20 --openmail-part-04425c32-00000001-- --part1_f3e10f39.24fc6b57_boundary-- From VM Mon Aug 30 16:29:20 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["711" "Monday" "30" "August" "1999" "19:25:31" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "23" "RE: starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 711 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29422 for starship-design-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29407 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zCZAa06251 (4413) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: RE: starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:25:31 EDT The high density antimatter store proposal is interesting too. No detail in the paper, but hopefully they have useful concepts. The EST concept was wild. Storing power in magnetic fields? If it works, this could be big. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: KellySt [SMTP:KellySt@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 9:02 AM To: starship-design Cc: lparker Subject: starship-design: Funded Phase I Studies LOTS of abstracts on current propulsion and power research, including the M2P2 paper and the EST paper... http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/index.html Lee Parker << File: Funded Phase I Studies.url >> From VM Tue Aug 31 09:54:51 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["968" "Tuesday" "31" "August" "1999" "11:00:50" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "21" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 968 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06608 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06600 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin35.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.35]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28488; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37CC0A42.AE90644D@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <11c764ce.24fc6b5b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Richard P. Doran Sr." , "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:00:50 -0600 KellySt@aol.com wrote: > > I wonder if this could be used effectively as an interstellar break? Nothing > in the paper talks about effective ISP or power consumption vrs thrust. > > Kelly > > http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/winglee.html > > The Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system provides a > revolutionary means for spacecraft propulsion that can efficiently utilize > the energy from the space plasmas to accelerate payloads to much higher > speeds than can be attained by present chemical (oxidizing propulsion > systems. The system utilizes an innovative configuration of existing > technology based on well established principles of plasma physics. It has the > potential of feasibly providing cheap, fast propulsion that could power > Interstellar Probe. Sounds like we found the IMPULSE drive of star trek type space craft. If the plasma propulsion idea can be expanded into a real interstellar ramjet, next stop the planets. From VM Tue Aug 31 14:25:47 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["178" "Tuesday" "31" "August" "1999" "17:18:59" "EDT" "LeoSusanto@aol.com" "LeoSusanto@aol.com" nil "3" "starship-design: M2P2" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 178 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23685 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23676 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LeoSusanto@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zICBa22755 (15553) for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL NetMail version 2.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: LeoSusanto@aol.com From: LeoSusanto@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: M2P2 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:18:59 EDT the M2P2 can be served as a propulsion to move a payload out of out solar system or to the planets in the solar system, but how about getting a payload into a solar system? Leo From VM Tue Aug 31 14:30:34 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["375" "Tuesday" "31" "August" "1999" "14:26:15" "-0700" "N. Lindberg" "nlindber@u.washington.edu" nil "12" "Re: starship-design: M2P2" "^From:" nil nil "8" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 375 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24978 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (root@jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24972 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dante38.u.washington.edu (nlindber@dante38.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.198]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA28098; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:26:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (nlindber@localhost) by dante38.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA145896; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:26:16 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "N. Lindberg" From: "N. Lindberg" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: LeoSusanto@aol.com cc: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: M2P2 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Leo, Maybe point yrself in the direction of the star, accelerate until the heliopause, coast, and decelerate in the target system? Nels On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 LeoSusanto@aol.com wrote: > the M2P2 can be served as a propulsion to move a payload out of out solar system or to the planets in the solar system, but how about getting a payload into a solar system? > > Leo > From VM Wed Sep 1 10:18:17 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil t nil nil nil nil] ["940" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "18:28:43" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "adam@crowl.webcentral.com.au" "<001701bef454$0b211420$b9c593cb@oemcomputer>" "18" "starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 940 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27790 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27782 for starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from enterprise.powerup.com.au (IDENT:qmailr@enterprise.powerup.com.au [203.32.8.37]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA26584 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7227 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 08:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) (203.147.197.185) by enterprise.powerup.com.au with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 08:28:22 -0000 Message-ID: <001701bef454$0b211420$b9c593cb@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship design" Subject: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:28:43 +1000 Hi SD The system seems to have a lot of potential within this system but as an interstellar drive it's pretty pitiful except for missions to the solar focus at 550 AU or so. It's maximum velocity is limited to the speed of the solar wind which is only 500-1000 km/s, so it'd be a long time between stars unless you had a secondary drive or a working ramscoop. A better system would be a magneto-sail pushed up to interstellar speeds by a massive particle beam. Powered by fusion it'd push the costs of probe launches way down since it'd only take a few hours at a time to accelerate probes up to ~ 0.3c or so. I think all this has been discussed before and the basic design settled on involves a lithium-fusor launched via a beam/laser to 0.3c [?], boosted to 0.4c by fusors and deccelerated by a mag-sail. Still the mini-magnetosphere will make possible some cheap and fast non-nuclear OutPlanet missions, so more power to them!!! Adam From VM Wed Sep 1 11:20:07 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1127" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "12:25:51" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "22" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1127 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16534 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16527 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin48.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.48]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22909 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37CD6FAE.532F4B04@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001701bef454$0b211420$b9c593cb@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship design Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 12:25:51 -0600 Adam Crowl wrote: > > Hi SD > > The system seems to have a lot of potential within this system but as an > interstellar drive it's pretty pitiful except for missions to the solar > focus at 550 AU or so. It's maximum velocity is limited to the speed of the > solar wind which is only 500-1000 km/s, so it'd be a long time between stars > unless you had a secondary drive or a working ramscoop. A better system > would be a magneto-sail pushed up to interstellar speeds by a massive > particle beam. Powered by fusion it'd push the costs of probe launches way > down since it'd only take a few hours at a time to accelerate probes up to ~ > 0.3c or so. I think all this has been discussed before and the basic design > settled on involves a lithium-fusor launched via a beam/laser to 0.3c [?], > boosted to 0.4c by fusors and deccelerated by a mag-sail. > So what happened to the tacking into the wind, for the return trip home. A insystem ram scoop is a good idea -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein From VM Wed Sep 1 11:35:39 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["929" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "11:32:57" "-0700" "Steve VanDevender" "stevev@efn.org" nil "17" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 929 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20629 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.efn.org (root@clavin.efn.org [206.163.176.10]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20624 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tzadkiel.efn.org (tzadkiel.efn.org [204.214.99.68]) by clavin.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11322 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stevev@localhost) by tzadkiel.efn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05344; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:32:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14285.29017.441091.294521@tzadkiel.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <37CD6FAE.532F4B04@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <001701bef454$0b211420$b9c593cb@oemcomputer> <37CD6FAE.532F4B04@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Steve VanDevender From: Steve VanDevender Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Ben Franchuk writes: > So what happened to the tacking into the wind, for the return trip home. > A insystem ram scoop is a good idea -- Tacking works in water sailing because a boat is resistant to moving sideways through the water. When you tack the wind on the sail produces a sideways thrust component that is strongly resisted by the boat's orientation in the water and a forward component that isn't, so the boat makes net forward motion (especially if you zig-zag). Unfortunately that isn't a property of spaceships, so they can't tack. There's a certain amount you can do if the spaceship is already in orbit around the star; you can arbitrarily raise or lower the spaceship's orbit using a sail to produce thrust components with or against the ship's orbital motion. But you can't accelerate a ship towards the star with the sail any better than just furling the sail and letting the star's gravity pull you in. From VM Wed Sep 1 12:00:51 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1777" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "13:05:30" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "40" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1777 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27492 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27476 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin47.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.47]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25380 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37CD78FA.D0AE0172@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001701bef454$0b211420$b9c593cb@oemcomputer> <37CD6FAE.532F4B04@jetnet.ab.ca> <14285.29017.441091.294521@tzadkiel.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 13:05:30 -0600 Steve VanDevender wrote: > > Ben Franchuk writes: > > So what happened to the tacking into the wind, for the return trip home. > > A insystem ram scoop is a good idea -- > > Tacking works in water sailing because a boat is resistant to > moving sideways through the water. When you tack the wind on the > sail produces a sideways thrust component that is strongly > resisted by the boat's orientation in the water and a forward > component that isn't, so the boat makes net forward motion > (especially if you zig-zag). Unfortunately that isn't a property > of spaceships, so they can't tack. There's a certain amount you > can do if the spaceship is already in orbit around the star; you > can arbitrarily raise or lower the spaceship's orbit using a sail > to produce thrust components with or against the ship's orbital > motion. But you can't accelerate a ship towards the star with > the sail any better than just furling the sail and letting the > star's gravity pull you in. The whole topic of the disscussion started because of tapping into the solar wind. 1) Solar wind 2) Magnetic sail ]--------------------------------------------------- ]------------------------#-------------------------- wind sun ]-----------------------#--------------------------- ]----------------------#--sail#1-------------------- ]----------------------#########---sail#2----------- So you add a second sail to provide your sideways resistance. Problem solved I think. what about the ship designs that use a wind driven upright turbine that turns the propeller of the ship? can that be adapted here? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein From VM Wed Sep 1 14:58:40 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1280" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "17:38:26" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "31" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1280 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15028 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14944 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zVMWa14800 (4412) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <70aa8369.24fef6d2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:26 EDT In a message dated 8/31/99 11:53:17 AM, bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca writes: >KellySt@aol.com wrote: >> >> I wonder if this could be used effectively as an interstellar break? > Nothing >> in the paper talks about effective ISP or power consumption vrs thrust. >> >> Kelly >> >> http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/winglee.html >> >> The Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, M2P2 , system provides a >> revolutionary means for spacecraft propulsion that can efficiently utilize >> the energy from the space plasmas to accelerate payloads to much higher >> speeds than can be attained by present chemical (oxidizing propulsion >> systems. The system utilizes an innovative configuration of existing >> technology based on well established principles of plasma physics. It >has the >> potential of feasibly providing cheap, fast propulsion that could power >> Interstellar Probe. > >Sounds like we found the IMPULSE drive of star trek type space craft. >If the plasma propulsion idea can be expanded into a real interstellar >ramjet, >next stop the planets. Actually the "impulse drives" were a modified fusion drive (must have played games with inertia to get the spec impulse they'd need), and ramjets probably don't do you a lot of good in this sector of the galaxy. From VM Wed Sep 1 14:58:40 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1505" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "16:40:02" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "34" "RE: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1505 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15455 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15406 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p458.gnt.com [204.49.91.74]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA18124 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:41:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bef4c2$ad36e000$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <14285.29017.441091.294521@tzadkiel.efn.org> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: RE: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:40:02 -0500 I think Robert Forward has adequately covered the subject of tacking solar sails, it is possible, it does work like a boat, and it isn't necessarily dependent upon having water and a keel, even to go "upwind". Lee Parker > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > [mailto:owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu]On Behalf Of Steve > VanDevender > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 1:33 PM > To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu > Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel > > > Ben Franchuk writes: > > So what happened to the tacking into the wind, for the > return trip home. > > A insystem ram scoop is a good idea -- > > Tacking works in water sailing because a boat is resistant to > moving sideways through the water. When you tack the wind on the > sail produces a sideways thrust component that is strongly > resisted by the boat's orientation in the water and a forward > component that isn't, so the boat makes net forward motion > (especially if you zig-zag). Unfortunately that isn't a property > of spaceships, so they can't tack. There's a certain amount you > can do if the spaceship is already in orbit around the star; you > can arbitrarily raise or lower the spaceship's orbit using a sail > to produce thrust components with or against the ship's orbital > motion. But you can't accelerate a ship towards the star with > the sail any better than just furling the sail and letting the > star's gravity pull you in. > From VM Wed Sep 1 14:58:40 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1192" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "17:53:44" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "38" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1192 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19317 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19309 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zUNHa01989 (7990) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7539a569.24fefa68@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:53:44 EDT In a message dated 9/1/99 1:18:46 PM, bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca writes: >Adam Crowl wrote: >> >> Hi SD >> >> The system seems to have a lot of potential within this system but as >an >> interstellar drive it's pretty pitiful except for missions to the solar >> focus at 550 AU or so. It's maximum velocity is limited to the speed >of the >> solar wind which is only 500-1000 km/s, so it'd be a long time between >stars >> unless you had a secondary drive or a working ramscoop. A better system >> would be a magneto-sail pushed up to interstellar speeds by a massive >> particle beam. Powered by fusion it'd push the costs of probe launches >way >> down since it'd only take a few hours at a time to accelerate probes >up to ~ >> 0.3c or so. I think all this has been discussed before and the basic >design >> settled on involves a lithium-fusor launched via a beam/laser to 0.3c >[?], >> boosted to 0.4c by fusors and deccelerated by a mag-sail. >> > >So what happened to the tacking into the wind, for the return trip home. Doesn't work. Only works in system because your 'tacking' is really altering your orbit traj around the sun. >A insystem ram scoop is a good idea -- Kelly From VM Wed Sep 1 14:58:40 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1424" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "17:53:42" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "50" "Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1424 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19352 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19345 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zTDWa01404 (7990) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5606cab1.24fefa66@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: starship-design: Mini-Magnetosphere and Star-Travel Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:53:42 EDT In a message dated 9/1/99 12:16:24 PM, adam@crowl.webcentral.com.au writes: >Hi SD > > > >The system seems to have a lot of potential within this system but as an > >interstellar drive it's pretty pitiful except for missions to the solar > >focus at 550 AU or so. It's maximum velocity is limited to the speed of >the > >solar wind which is only 500-1000 km/s, so it'd be a long time between >stars > >unless you had a secondary drive or a working ramscoop. A better system > >would be a magneto-sail pushed up to interstellar speeds by a massive > >particle beam. Powered by fusion it'd push the costs of probe launches >way > >down since it'd only take a few hours at a time to accelerate probes up >to ~ > >0.3c or so. I think all this has been discussed before and the basic design > >settled on involves a lithium-fusor launched via a beam/laser to 0.3c [?], > >boosted to 0.4c by fusors and deccelerated by a mag-sail. > > > >Still the mini-magnetosphere will make possible some cheap and fast > >non-nuclear OutPlanet missions, so more power to them!!! > > > >Adam My thought was that the interstelar dust and debries might make a damn good ion flow and act like a solar wind while at speed .4c. If you could cut down a good fraction of that speed before you have to hit the decel boost, you could save a ton of fuel. I hadn't thought of using it as a sail for boosting out. Interesting idea though. Kelly From VM Wed Sep 1 16:35:38 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2083" "Wednesday" "1" "September" "1999" "19:33:28" "EDT" "STAR1SHIP@aol.com" "STAR1SHIP@aol.com" nil "51" "starship-design: My rocket engine patent pending link - Star Ship" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2083 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14463 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14457 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from STAR1SHIP@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zGUHa13735 (4236) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d4d669d.24ff11c8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: STAR1SHIP@aol.com From: STAR1SHIP@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: My rocket engine patent pending link - Star Ship Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:33:28 EDT ------------------------------ from welcome message of majordomo@lists.uoregon.edu Although clearly there is much speculation involved in the development of future technology, this mailing list is practically oriented and proposals should be justifiable using presently-known engineering techniques and scientific knowledge. Proposals involving highly speculative topics such as FTL (faster-than-light) propulsion or novel energy generation techniques will be treated quite skeptically by list members. ------------------------------- Thank you for welcoming me to your mailing list. I have a patent pending on a rocket engine that may be of interest to some of your members. There are seven claims with the seventh being a machine to test Einstein's theory that a machine other than a particle accelerator may be found to exceed light speed. I have no desire to discuss the validity of the seventh claim to keep any responses to issues of my machine principles of applied physics and not the theoretical projections of it's operating limits. I welcome other feedback (claims one to six or patents in general) even when healthily skeptical. I believe we all share a belief in man's future exploration of the stars, and I propose a practical machine to accomplish this. Reference to my websites engine patent pending is below. To transport to my cyberspace constructed star ship's transporter room (Table of Contents) simply click the animated blue bar at the top of any of my web property pages marking my intellectual property. I am not responsible for links outside my property including one to LIT. This mailing list in-closet members believing in faster than light rocket travel may respond by private mail to tjac780754@aol.com with my private response given. (use private in subject line) . I will respond publicly to this list post regarding other inquires-not about light speed limit. Respectfully, Tom Jackson star1ship@aol.com PS Enjoy http://members.aol.com/tjac780754/indexb.htm From VM Fri Sep 3 17:11:28 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2154" "Friday" "3" "September" "1999" "20:09:07" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "65" "starship-design: Fwd: Associated press needs a calculator!!" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2154 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02110 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02072 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zWPFa22757 (3868) for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f20848a5.2501bd23_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Fwd: Associated press needs a calculator!! Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:09:07 EDT --part1_f20848a5.2501bd23_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_f20848a5.2501bd23_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:17:48 -0400 Received: from bastion1.mail.sprint.com (bastion.mail.sprint.com [208.4.28.129]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:17:42 -0400 Received: from sii01.mail.sprint.com by bastion1.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:17:39 -0500 Received: from [144.223.128.84] by sii01.mail.sprint.com with ESMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:17:34 -0500 Received: from kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (root@kcopmp02 [144.223.26.114]) by kcopmh01.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA20668; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:17:28 -0500 (CDT) From: kelly g starks Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp02.corp.sprint.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA01946; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:17:27 -0500 (CDT) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:17:26 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: Associated press needs a calculator!! TO: DotarSojat@aol.com, indy@the-line.com, kellyst@aol.com, kryswalker@aol.com, scott.schulte@openmail.mail.sprint.com, jason.torrey@openmail.mail.sprint.com, ken.ward@openmail.mail.sprint.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0469e160-00000001" --openmail-part-0469e160-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following quote from a AP report explains a lot about the quality of recent press reporting. 2 September 1999: Teens Plead Innocent in Hacking Case, AP, Yahoo "Their ages were not given, but the indictment said they were all born in 1979." =20 --openmail-part-0469e160-00000001-- --part1_f20848a5.2501bd23_boundary-- From VM Sat Sep 4 15:28:22 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["4285" "Friday" "3" "September" "1999" "22:57:02" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "99" "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99 (fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 4285 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08340 for starship-design-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08335 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p469.gnt.com [204.49.91.85]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA01342 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:58:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000601bef689$9205aaf0$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99 (fwd) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:57:02 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu [mailto:listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of Chris W. Johnson Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:07 PM To: Single Stage Rocket Technology News Subject: SSRT: Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99 (fwd) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99 (fwd) Sender: delta-clipper-approval@world.std.com Reply-To: delta-clipper@europe.std.com Status: The latest info I have from 'The Hill' is Letters and Faxes are being counted on this issue. Space Access Political Action Alert 9/3/99 ____________________________________________________________________ - Contact Your Congressman by Wednesday! - Senate HUD/VA Markup Likely Week After Next Write, Fax or Call Your Congressman by Wednesday! Congress will come back into session after their August break this coming Wednesday, September 8th. The full House is currently expected to debate and vote on their HUD/VA (NASA) Appropriation that same day. As it emerged from committee, that bill contains roughly $900 million in NASA cuts, about two-thirds of that in space-based science. We are asking you all to contact your local Congressman and ask him or her to restore the NASA space science budget cuts in the HUD/VA Appropriation. This may seem a bit outside our area, but we do have what we think are good reasons. First, unless these cuts are in large part restored, there is very little chance we'll get an "add" for NASA Future-X. Restoring some significant part of the cuts in the House improves odds of getting Future-X money added in the Senate, in our estimation. Second, these parts of NASA being cut are those that tend to be most flexible about buying commercial launches when appropriate; they are good for the market that we're trying to encourage. Third, these parts of NASA being cut tend to be places where better-faster-cheaper has actually been happening; this is a trend we'd like to encourage. Note that we are taking no position on the Shuttle and Station cuts that make up the other third of the overall reductions. The message we recommend is "restore the NASA space science cuts". "Restore the NASA cuts" period is of course an option if you prefer. How To Do It Get your Congressman's DC office address or phone or fax number, via www.vote-smart.org (have an old bill with your nine-digit zip handy) or by calling your local library's information desk. If you're writing or faxing, compose a polite concise one-page letter to them, identifying yourself as a constituent of theirs, telling them what you'd like them to do, then briefly explaining why - just hit one or two high points, don't overexplain. Thank them for their attention, sign the letter, and send it. If you're writing, remember Monday is a holiday - get it to the Post Office Saturday or you'll have to overnight it Tuesday. If phoning during Tuesday or first thing Wednesday, dial their DC office number, ask for whoever handles NASA appropriations questions, then when connected to that staffer (or more likely their voice mail) tell them briefly who you are ("I'm Joe Smith from Peoria") and what you want them to do ("Restore the NASA space science budget cuts"), then (unless they have questions) thank them for their time and ring off [202-225-3121 Cap. SB]. Senate HUD/VA Markup Likely Week After Next The next key item is going to be persuading the Senate Appropriators to "add $30 million for NASA Future-X flight demonstrators, as provided for in the House NASA Authorization". The Senate HUD/VA Appropriations Subcommittee is currently expected to "mark up" sometime during the week of September 13th. There is a small chance they might get to that late next week; we'll be putting out a specific Alert on that either way. Meanwhile, for you self-starters out there, the subcommittee members are Stevens AK, Byrd WV, Bond MO, Burns MT, Shelby AL, Craig ID, Hutchison TX, Kyl AZ, Mikulski MD, Leahy VT, Lautenberg NJ, Harkin IA - call fax or write with the above message, if one of these is your Senator. Thanks! *end* From VM Mon Sep 20 11:09:43 1999 Content-Length: 5318 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["5318" "Wednesday" "8" "September" "1999" "19:43:37" "-0500" "L. Parker" "lparker@cacaphony.net" nil "156" "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert #4. (fwd)" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil "starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert #4." nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 5318 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03981 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from traffic.gnt.net (root@gnt.com [204.49.53.5]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03963 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadsword (p466.gnt.com [204.49.91.82]) by traffic.gnt.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA29632 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: <001001befa5e$18ef2c30$0401a8c0@broadsword> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "L. Parker" From: "L. Parker" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "Starship-Design (E-mail)" Subject: starship-design: FW: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert #4. (fwd) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:43:37 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu [mailto:listserv@ds.cc.utexas.edu]On Behalf Of Chris W. Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 2:55 PM To: Single Stage Rocket Technology News Subject: SSRT: Space Science Political Alert #4. (fwd) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:48:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald L Doughty To: DC-X Subject: Space Science Political Alert #4. (Summer's Over...)] (fwd) Sender: delta-clipper-approval@world.std.com Reply-To: delta-clipper@europe.std.com Space Science Policy Alert #4. Monday 6 September 1999. By Tim Kyger *Cross-posting of the data in this message is strongly encouraged. * _* Night Comes In *_ On Wednesday, 8 September 1999, Congress returns from summer recess. On Wednesday, 8 September, the House will consider, debate, and vote on H.R. 2684, the FY '00 VA/HUD Appropriations Bill, which funds NASA. H.R. 2684 contains a cut to NASA of about a billion dollars -- unless changed. The Senate's VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee will meet on Thursday, 9 September to mark their FY '00 VA/HUD bill. Current word is that they, too, will cut NASA's requested FY '00 budget by about a billion dollars or so. We have three days to change things. _* Bonds Speaks Redux *_ Senator Kit Bond (R-MO) is the Chair of the Senate's VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee. He says that (at least as of August 3rd) that he has not received any appeals to keep NASA's budget at pre-cut levels, and further, that he does not have any meetings planned on the issue. Senator Bond's spokesman Dan Hubbard said, "I am certain that no one has been in contact with us on this issue." It was further said that Senator Bond has no plans to meet with NASA Administrator Dan Goldin, or with pro-NASA Senator Mike DeWine (R-OH), or anyone else about this issue. Folks should let Senator Bond know what they want - Senator Christopher Bond (R-MO) Senate VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee Chair 202/224-5721 vox 202/224-8149 fax 314/725-4484 in Kansas City 573/634-2488 in Jefferson City 573/334-7044 in Cape Girardeau 314/725-4484 in Saint Louis 417/881-7068 in Springfield Room SR-274 Russell Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510 kit_bond@bond.senate.gov email address www.senate.gov/~bond web site _* I Know What You Did Last Summer. *_ I worked on Capital Hill for eight years. Letters have more political clout than phone calls. Email has the least political clout of anything you can do, ranking lower than even a phone call. You can always fax your letter, however, and this is probably the most convenient way to register your opinion on this matter. (Staffers assume that paper mail or faxes take more effort, so they take them more seriously.) Last week, Capitol Hill had started to receive letters, calls, faxes, and email. But it was only a trickle. If we are to prevail, it has to change from light rain to a hurricane. A draft letter that may be used to model your letters will be found at the end of this message. After you write and/or fax Senator Bond, write and/or fax Senator Mikulski, the Ranking Democrat on the Senate VA/HUD Appropriations Subcommittee: Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) 202/224-4654 vox 202/224-8858 fax 410/962-4510 in Baltimore 410/263-1805 in Annapolis 301/345-5517 in College Park 410/546-7711 in Salisbury 301/797-2826 in Hagerstown Room SH-709 Hart Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510 senator@mikulski.senate.gov email address www.senate.gov/~mikulski web site When you're done, write and/or fax the following other two Senators: Ted Stevens (R-AK), Chairman of the full Appropriations Committee 202/224-3004 vox 202/224-2354 fax 907/271-5915 in Anchorage Room SH-522, HSOB senator_stevens@stevens.senate.gov email address stevens.senate.gov web site Robert Byrd (D-WV) is the full Committee Ranking Democrat, and he is also on the VA/HUD Subcommittee. 202/224-3954 vox 202/228-0002 fax 304/342-5855 in Charleston Room SH-311, HSOB senator_byrd@byrd.senate.gov email address www.senate.gov/~byrd/ web site _* Why We Fight *_ If you want to see the damage these proposed cuts to NASA's budget would do, point your browser at: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/oss/announce/housefull2000.html _* History in the Making *_ The following point was first made to me by Chaz Miller, formerly of ProSpace. Good point, Chaz! The debate that will occur on H.R. 2684 this coming Wednesday will constitute the first policy debate by our elected representatives on what the goals of the U.S. ought to be for its federal civil space program in at least a generation -- certainly it will be the first in *my* adult lifetime (born in '55.you do the math!). Debates on the Space Station don't count; they've only been debates about a specific program within NASA. You owe it to yourself to be aware of what is said in this coming debate. You also owe it to yourself, and to our posterity, to try to influence this debate beforehand. -* Silence Means Security; Silence Means Approval. *_ Write those letters! If you need more background information, please see the website at the following URL: http://home.marssociety.org/usa-political/news/kyger-3b-19990830.html or http://www.reston.com/nasa/budget.html Stay tuned. This is going to be a long fight. # end # From VM Mon Sep 20 11:09:47 1999 Content-Length: 364 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["364" "Thursday" "16" "September" "1999" "18:51:47" "EDT" "KellySt@aol.com" "KellySt@aol.com" nil "17" "starship-design: Re: StarShip Design" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil "starship-design: Re: StarShip Design" nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 364 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20016 for starship-design-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20011 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KellySt@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id rWWKa25313 (4365); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <28882c57.2512ce83@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: KellySt@aol.com From: KellySt@aol.com Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: dana1ee@yahoo.com, starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: starship-design: Re: StarShip Design Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:51:47 EDT In a message dated 9/16/99 3:13:04 PM, dana1ee@yahoo.com writes: >Dear Sir, > >I found your site interesting and would like to have a link to it. >http://metalab.unc.edu/lunar/school/InterStellar/SSD_index.html > >Dana Lee Kimball >President >LaunchStar International Inc. >danalee@iname.com Glad you like it, please link to your hearts content. Kelly Starks From VM Tue Sep 28 13:31:02 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1005" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "06:27:29" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "ajcrowlx2@ozemail.com.au" nil "22" "starship-design: Plasma Drive..." "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 1005 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06421 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep7.mail.ozemail.net (fep7.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.125]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06408 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ae06190.powerup.com.au [203.147.198.190]) by fep7.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA25263 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:27:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001001bf09ef$e7229420$bec693cb@oemcomputer> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Plasma Drive... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:27:29 +1000 Hi SD, Well here's the URL for the Final Report on the Stable Plasma power storage concept... http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/SewardFinal.pdf ...it requires Adobe Acrobat 3.0. It seems to have great potential and the plasma could be powered up by any old energy source, via a microwave injector or some such. Theoretically a stable plasma could be put in a jet engine and the aircraft would require NO fuel, and still have enough power to travel around the world! It'd just compress and heat normal air... Applied to a space launcher the savings could be immense, and applied to a Mars mission the mass would go from ~ 600 t [split between three launches] to one launch of about 120 t! That's an 80% saving in mass and God knows how much in equipment and development. Ultimately it could go into a system using small sub-plasmas for thrust and achieve maybe 60,000 s Isp... I can see real potential for this coupled with a Bussard fusor for high speed Deep Space missions... Adam From VM Tue Sep 28 13:59:45 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["662" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "06:58:38" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "ajcrowlx2@ozemail.com.au" nil "16" "starship-design: Planet Mapper on the Cheap" "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 662 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00128 for starship-design-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep7.mail.ozemail.net (fep7.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.125]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00106 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ae06190.powerup.com.au [203.147.198.190]) by fep7.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA27991 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:58:30 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001401bf09f4$3dbe11c0$bec693cb@oemcomputer> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: Subject: starship-design: Planet Mapper on the Cheap Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:58:38 +1000 Hi Guys... Here's another really interesting design... for very light-weight 25 metre space-telescopes, a hundred of which would make up an interferometer cluster and allow terrestrial planets to be imaged [10,000 pixel images] around other stars... all for about $6 billion. Spread over ten years, and able to do useful work from the word go, the system would make planet-mapping routine, and could easily be in place by 2020. http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/BekeyFinal.pdf this one really excites me because it could happen and it'd be cheap compared with the hundreds of billions needed for a Planet Imager built the usual way... Adam From VM Wed Sep 29 11:45:11 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2075" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "17:17:30" "+1000" "Adam Crowl" "ajcrowlx2@ozemail.com.au" nil "63" "Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive..." "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2075 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA24108 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep9.mail.ozemail.net (fep9.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.103]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24098 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ae05108.powerup.com.au [203.147.197.108]) by fep9.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA29336 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:17:22 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01bf0a4a$b1b74960$6cc593cb@oemcomputer> References: <4.1.19990928231735.01a16800@www.urly-bird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Adam Crowl" From: "Adam Crowl" Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship design" Subject: Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:17:30 +1000 Hi SD, That's a bloody good Idea Kevin. Beamed power without the need for totally beamed power, just a kind of top up. A pure microwave system never struck me as safe, but a plasma storage system has an advantage... Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Houston To: Adam Crowl Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 2:56 PM Subject: Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive... > Hmm, > > Very interesting. I like that it is microwave powered. You could make a > really nice beamed launch vehicle. A little bit of water to start things > off, then breathe air until you clear the stratosphere, and then use > whatever reaction mass you are using (I suggest water). The whole time, > you can continue to add energy, so that the craft has full power when it > reaches space. > > The power station stays on the ground, next to the Hydroelectric plant (or > whatever) that generates the power. > > Kevin > > At 06:27 AM 9/29/99 +1000, you wrote: > >Hi SD, > > > >Well here's the URL for the Final Report on the Stable Plasma power storage > >concept... > > > >http://peaches.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/SewardFinal.pdf > > > >...it requires Adobe Acrobat 3.0. It seems to have great potential and the > >plasma could be powered up by any old energy source, via a microwave > >injector or some such. Theoretically a stable plasma could be put in a jet > >engine and the aircraft would require NO fuel, and still have enough power > >to travel around the world! It'd just compress and heat normal air... > >Applied to a space launcher the savings could be immense, and applied to a > >Mars mission the mass would go from ~ 600 t [split between three launches] > >to one launch of about 120 t! That's an 80% saving in mass and God knows how > >much in equipment and development. > > > >Ultimately it could go into a system using small sub-plasmas for thrust and > >achieve maybe 60,000 s Isp... I can see real potential for this coupled with > >a Bussard fusor for high speed Deep Space missions... > > > >Adam > > > > From VM Wed Sep 29 11:45:11 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2469" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "10:58:56" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "53" "Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive..." "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2469 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17710 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17702 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin39.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.39]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29539 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F24550.6E2116E8@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4.1.19990928231735.01a16800@www.urly-bird.com> <001b01bf0a4a$b1b74960$6cc593cb@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu CC: starship design Subject: Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:58:56 -0600 Adam Crowl wrote: > > Hi SD, > > That's a bloody good Idea Kevin. Beamed power without the need for totally > beamed power, just a kind of top up. A pure microwave system never struck me > as safe, but a plasma storage system has an advantage... > > Very interesting. I like that it is microwave powered. You could make a > > really nice beamed launch vehicle. A little bit of water to start things > > off, then breathe air until you clear the stratosphere, and then use > > whatever reaction mass you are using (I suggest water). The whole time, > > you can continue to add energy, so that the craft has full power when it > > reaches space. > > > > The power station stays on the ground, next to the Hydroelectric plant (or > > whatever) that generates the power. > > >to travel around the world! It'd just compress and heat normal air... > > >Applied to a space launcher the savings could be immense, and applied to > Mars mission the mass would go from ~ 600 t [split between three > launches to one launch of about 120 t! That's an 80% saving in mass and God knows > how much in equipment and development. > Ultimately it could go into a system using small sub-plasmas for thrust > and achieve maybe 60,000 s Isp... I can see real potential for this coupled > with a Bussard fusor for high speed Deep Space missions... > I don't think the plasma will scale to make a large space launcher possible. My guess is still a air launched pseudo SSTO space plane with a payload in the 2-3 ton range for low earth orbit. The problem is scaling and heat flow. I suspect a external field of some kind will be needed to keep the plasma stable for energy addition and removal. ( Mr Fusion of "Back to the future" comes to mind here for a successful reactor size wise ). The heat produced from say a 70% efficient engine still has to fed through small area. Assuming a 10^9 J? plasma we are looking at about 3 feet diameter with a 1 foot hole. That's a lot of heat and external forces wanting to push the field out of shape. I wonder how the field would explode if pushed out of shape? Lots of nasty X-rays is my guess. quick calculations ... 2 ton payload 3 ton unmanned craft ... Isp = 6,000. g=32 mi=5 tons v 30,000 ft/sec Mf = (e(V/(g*isp)-1)Mi = 1 ton. Ben. I wonder if C4H would work for fuel? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein From VM Wed Sep 29 13:34:32 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["2383" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "14:35:13" "-0500" "Kevin Houston" "Kevin@urly-bird.com" nil "60" "Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive..." "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 2383 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00868 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web12.ntx.net (web12.ntx.net [209.1.144.158]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00862 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from liberty (ip15.minneapolis5.mn.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.48.15]) by web12.ntx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12100 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990929140841.019fd070@www.urly-bird.com> X-Sender: web121aa@www.urly-bird.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 In-Reply-To: <37F24550.6E2116E8@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <4.1.19990928231735.01a16800@www.urly-bird.com> <001b01bf0a4a$b1b74960$6cc593cb@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Kevin Houston From: Kevin Houston Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: starship design Subject: Re: starship-design: Plasma Drive... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:35:13 -0500 At 10:58 AM 9/29/99 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: >I don't think the plasma will scale to make a large space launcher possible. >My guess is still a air launched pseudo SSTO space plane with a payload in the >2-3 ton >range for low earth orbit. The problem is scaling and heat flow. I suspect a >external field of some kind will be needed to keep the plasma stable for energy >addition Not only that, but you would want one on-board for emergencies, in case you had a "Flame-out". So I think that an external elctro-magnetic device should be built in to the containment vessel. >and removal. ( Mr Fusion of "Back to the future" comes to mind here for a >successful reactor >size wise ). The heat produced from say a 70% efficient engine still has >to fed through small area. I wonder if the air-flow could be directed in such a way as to couple with the rotational component of the plasma, so as to help keep it stable, instead of breaking it. >Assuming a 10^9 J? plasma we are looking at about 3 feet diameter with a 1 >foot hole. >That's a lot of heat and external forces wanting to push the field out of >shape. I wonder >how the field would explode if pushed out of shape? Lots of nasty X-rays is my >guess. Cherenkov radiation? It would be one hell of an EMP wouldn't it? I'll bet it will be spread out over the EM spectrum in a gaussian shape with some characteristic frequency peak. >quick calculations ... 2 ton payload 3 ton unmanned craft ... Isp = 6,000. g=32 >mi=5 tons >v 30,000 ft/sec >Mf = (e(V/(g*isp)-1)Mi = 1 ton. >Ben. >I wonder if C4H would work for fuel? Any gas/liquid should work as well as any other. Assuming you mean methane, it would combust in the reaction chamber while in flight, adding a little kick, but the main gas for the atmospheric portion will have to be plain old air. Once out in space, you'd have to bring your own O2 to combust the CH4, and that costs extra weight. I think plain old water would be the best. You could build the water tank around the plasma, to provide extra sheilding if the plasma collapsed, Then the heat leakage from the plasma will help warm the water and keep it liquid out in space. What would happen if you threw one these plasma rings at someone? How would you do that, and how could you make sure the field collapsed when it reached it target? That energy has to go somewhere.... Kevin From VM Wed Sep 29 14:17:38 1999 X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["624" "Wednesday" "29" "September" "1999" "15:22:07" "-0600" "Ben Franchuk" "bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca" nil "16" "starship-design: more stable Plasma usage." "^From:" nil nil "9" nil nil nil nil nil] nil) Content-Length: 624 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27235 for starship-design-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.jetnet.ab.ca (root@main.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.11.66]) by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27218 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jetnet.ab.ca (bfranchuk@dialin46.jetnet.ab.ca [207.153.6.46]) by main.jetnet.ab.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12063 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37F282FF.5DA8EBC9@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ben Franchuk From: Ben Franchuk Sender: owner-starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu To: "starship-design@lists.uoregon.edu" Subject: starship-design: more stable Plasma usage. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:22:07 -0600 > What would happen if you threw one these plasma rings at someone? How > would you do that, and how could you make sure the field collapsed when it > reached it target? That energy has to go somewhere.... > Kevin It sounds like kevin has invented the phaser weapon. Large plasma ring to feed tiny plasma rings to be shot into a target. 1) small high density ring -- stun with EM pulse. 2) low density ring -- pain/wound 3) med density ring -- kill ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein