Oregon-Senshu Fall '97
"What's in a Number?" Discussion



This discussion was started by Professor "Tok" Iwabuchi" because of the fact that we have 47 Senshu students!

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Name: Tok Iwabuchi
Date: Oct 04 1997
Email: tiwabuchi@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Computers: Computer brings me more and more work every day, but it's much fun.
Comments: Question for Oregon tutors. This Oregon-Senshu project has 47 Senshu participants. The number 47 has a cultural meaning for Japanese. It originally comes from a famous harakiri or seppuku incident that happened in the Shogunate castle, the current Imperial Palace in Tokyo, some three hundred years ago. This incident is still very popular with Japanese and has been dramatized again and again every year in Kabuki as well as in movies and TV dramas. Do you happen to know this incident?

Name: Leslie Opp-Beckman
Date: Oct 04 1997
Email: leslieob@oregon.uoregon.edu
Number 47: Maybe it's the number of people who committed suicide?
Comments: In U.S. gambling culture, the number 7 is sometimes lucky. What are lucky and unlucky numbers in Japan?

Name: Tok Iwabuchi
Date: Oct 05 1997
Email: tiwabuchi@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: Leslie, you are right. However, first of all, one person committed harakiri suicide as penalty.
Comments: Two years later, 47 people followed the first person after successfully forcing another person to commit harakiki suicide. What is the relationship between the first person and the 47 people? Why did the 47 eventually follow the first perosn? This incident is still very popular probably because it symbolizes the traditional part of Japanese culutre. Japanese workers are still said to be just like those magnificent 47.

Name: George Cusack
Date: Oct 06 1997
Email: galactor@oregon.uoregon.edu
Number 47: Were the 47 people servants of the first person?
Comments: 3 is an important number in the Christian religion, representing the holy trinity. According to superstition, 13 is an "unlucky" number.

Name: Kyle Watt
Date: Oct 06 1997
Email: kwatt@gladstone.uoregon.edu
Number 47: They were the former samurai of a daimyo named Asano.
Comments: To summarize this fascinating tragedy: In 1700 a daimyo named Asano is insulted by a man named Kira. He tries to kill him but fails. The reigning shogun doesn't know how to handle the situation because Asano acted rightly yet he broke the law by drawing his sword. Asano is forced to commit seppuku to retain his honor but has his lands taken from him. The new daimyo brings an army to take his new lands from Asano's 47 samurai. Surprisingly, they surrender and become ronin. They scatter and wander all over Japan until three years later, in 1703, they all gather in Edo. Together, they all stormed Kira's mansion to avenge their lord. Something that would have been impossible for them to do three years ago with Kira protected by the shogun. Now, however, no one expects it so they are successful in killing Kira and avenging their lord. When they finished carrying out their duty they turned themselves over to the shogun who orders them all to commit seppuku. This event is one of many that leads to the downfall of the Tokugawa Shogunate and the beginning of the Meiji Restoration. I'm sorry to solve your riddle so quickly but I love Japanese history. I may be a little inaccurate becasue its been a long time since I read about this. I apologize if I am.

Name: Tok Iwabuchi
Date: Oct 06 1997
Email: tiwabuchi@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: Welcome back to our project, Kyle. Yes, your answer is correct. What does those 47's behavior symbolize? Why is this story still popular? The fall of the Shogunate government in 1867 had nothing to do with this seppuku incident.
Comments: Number 7 is a lucky number in Japan too. I think we learned it trough baseball. Number 8 is a traditional happy number in Japan, so some people want their license plates to have as many 8s as possible. Do Americans have other lucky numbers or unlucky numbers? In Japan 9 is a traditional unlucky number.

Name: Tok Iwabuchi
Date: Oct 07 1997
Email: tiwabuchi@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: I remember another unlucky number for Japanese.
Comments: The unlucky number is 4 because its pronunciation is the same as the pronunciation of the word that means death. Japanese professional baseball players don't use this number. Each team can have up to three non-Japanese players, mostly American s. They don't care 4 or 44, so they are given these numbers on their backs.

Name: Norio Sanbonmatsu
Date: Oct 10 1997
Email: kouki@kt.rim.or.jp
Number 47: Number 4 isn't good number for Japanese,and number 7 is good number in Japan too.So the number 47 is fortune and unfortun number for Japanese.It' funny and strange.
Comments: Mr.Iwabuchi wrote number 4 is not good number for Japanese. In some Japanese hospitals,there are no fourth floors. Because number "4" pronunciation means same as death. So the hospitals use number "5" if the floor is fourth. I've heard number 13 is not good number for American.Are there 13th floor in high buildings in America?

Name: Yoichi Mizushima
Date: Oct 11 1997
Email: c080353@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: Speaking of 47, I imagine the year 1947. It was just 50 years ago. A new constitution of Japan became effective in 1947. The constitution of Japan became law on May 3, 1947. Now, May 3 is Constitution Memorial Day. Marks the adoption of the 194 7 constitution.
Comments: My special number is ID number. We are administered by ID number. Each students have various personality . But ID number is well-organized. We usually learn a thing by heart ID number for my own use. Do you consider auspicious or inauspicious nu mber? I consider more inauspicious number than auspicious number.

Name: Norio Sanbonmatsu
Date: Oct 12 1997
Email: kouki@kt.rim.or.jp
Number 47: Number 4 isn't good number for Japanese,and number 7 is good number in Japan too.So the number 47
Comments: The age 42 is not good number for Japanese. Because 42 pronunciation means same as death. So in Japan,a man who become 42 go to shrine to pray not to happen any bad accidents. (But not everyone go to shrine to pray.) And Japanese celebrate boys and girls when they become 3,5,7 years old. It's very famous and traditional event in Japan. But I don't know why we celebrate the age 3,5,7 years boys and girls. Maybe it was very hard to live until the age 3,5,7 for little boys and girls in Japanese old time. Because there were no good foods, medicines and doctors in old time.

Name: Takashi Koide
Date: Oct 15 1997
Email: caz@mxm.meshnet.or.jp
Number 47: As Kyle said, this number reminds of 47 samurai who succeeded in revenging killing a samurai who killed thier master.
Comments: I heard when you play football, you are assigned to have a special number.

Name: Fumiko Takei
Date: Oct 26 1997
Email: c080111@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: It's my mother's age.
Comments: I didn't know 47's mean till I read everyone's messages. It's embarrassing. I need to study history more. In America 13 is unlucky number, right? I've ever watched several horror videos concerned with 13. In Japan I guess lucky number is 1, 3, 5, 7 ,,,the number that can't cut two. So we celebrate childlen who are 7, 5, 3, years old, I guess. 8is also lucky number. Because if we write 8 in Kanji,the figure is spreaded.It means your life will be bright.

Name: Nobuyuki Kawasaki
Date: Oct 28 1997
Email: c080550@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: I don't know what it is. But I think 47 is bad number.
Comments: The special number for me is "7", because I had to use a uniform number of 7 when I played volleyball in my high-school days. And I know a special number for American is "49".

Name: Mutsumi Takahashi
Date: Oct 28 1997
Email: c070414@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: I didn't know 47 has special means until I read the messages.
Comments: Kyle's knowledge gives me a shock. Because I'm Japanese but I didn't know the story. Is it so famous? I heard 7 is maximum number which we can learn at once. You know whether it is true or not. For me, the special number is 14 and 15. As nobuyuki said, the numbers were my uniform number when I played basketball.

Name: Ai Mori
Date: Nov 09 1997
Email: w080170@gkk.senshu-u.ac.jp
Number 47: I haven't been conscious of number 47 that have special meaning. And I didn't notice that number of our class andAsano's samurai is same number. Is story of Asano's 47 samurai well-known in America? Most people are hardly aware of number 47 in daily li
Comments: Meny people like number 7 as luky numberin Japan too. On the other side, number 4 is avoided. Because 4 is imaged death by reason of same pronanciation. But a four-leaf clover is fortun syimbol. In Japan, many people give attation to number of their "a mis fortun age". When women is 33 years, and men is 42 years, it have been said that they meet with misfortune@from old times. So people go to a Shrine for driving out misfortun.